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Norway spanky4ever
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

fightinfrenchman wrote:He energized the base so hard that he lost

I :ear: you loud and clear, no need to repeat the same for every page :P
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United States of America Amsel_
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by Amsel_ »

iwillspankyou wrote:
What type of candidate do you think can energize the base?

A candidate that talks about the issues that most US ppl are concerned with, and does not take money from big money interests. I have my favorite you might know ;) Sanders have already energized the base :shock:
I also like Tulsi Gabbard, and Nina Turner if she decides to run.

I'd definitely like it if a democrat ran and talked mostly about issues, but most people - media included are going to want to hear him attack Trump. It'd be a great strategy for getting moderates, but I doubt him speaking would make the news much. Then again, no one is ever going to get more free-publicity than Trump.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

@Amsel_ charismatic like you said. I also think Moreno progressive priorities will benefit them. Bernie won Michigan because progressive policies resonate with the blue collar workers. Hillary lost because her policies didn’t.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by momuuu »

iwillspankyou wrote:
What type of candidate do you think can energize the base?

A candidate that talks about the issues that most US ppl are concerned with, and does not take money from big money interests. I have my favorite you might know ;) Sanders have already energized the base :shock:
I also like Tulsi Gabbard, and Nina Turner if she decides to run.

Look spanky, it's amazing from my left point of viewer that Sanders is getting some votes in the USA. But we have to realize what the USA is really like. They're the ultimate capitalist country, the American dream is the purest form of capitalism possible. I never even expected a politician like Sanders to gain as much traction so that pleasantly surprised me, but I also don't think the USA is ready for someone like him as president yet. Let's remember that he lost to a very incompetent candidate that some people disliked so much that they voted for an orange giant toddler over her.

Let's just be happy that socialist ideas are getting more support in the USA. It will be a while until they reach the level of EU countries, but let's just celebrate the baby steps.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

n0el wrote:@Amsel_ charismatic like you said. I also think Moreno progressive priorities will benefit them. Bernie won Michigan because progressive policies resonate with the blue collar workers. Hillary lost because her policies didn’t.


Bernie did not actually "win" Michigan because he never made it to the general election, due to losing in the primary, which he did because he was less popular than Hillary.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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Post by n0el »

He “won” the Michigan primary.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

n0el wrote:He “won” the Michigan primary.


Then he lost the nomination to the more popular candidate, Hillary Clinton.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

That doesn’t matter in the context of my argument.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Any Democratic other than Hillary would have won Wisconsin in 2016
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

Is that your argument?
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Yesh
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by Amsel_ »

n0el wrote:@Amsel_ charismatic like you said. I also think Moreno progressive priorities will benefit them. Bernie won Michigan because progressive policies resonate with the blue collar workers. Hillary lost because her policies didn’t.

I'm not sure blue collar workers are too thrilled with progressives. Looking at the reasons Sanders won in Michigan https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... gan-upset/ economics doesn't seem to play a big part. I think there's a bit of a fine line to be played between working-class or populist economics and progressivism. Abdul El-Sayed was a progressive, but he lost the gubernatorial primary in Michigan last year. A lot of progressives unfortunately are the type of progressive that's only appealing in deep-blue states, and not working-class ones. Bernie's message was more appealing to young people than blue collar types imo.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by Goodspeed »

Seriously though, is the base not already energized by their disapproval of Trump? Turnout in the midterms was historic.
Does Trump even stand a chance in 2020, no matter who the dems pick? Maybe I'm being optimistic but I don't see him winning.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by XeeleeFlower »

You're being optimistic.
Time is wise and our wounds seem to heal to the rhythm of aging,
But our past is a ghost fading out that at night it’s still haunting.

http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

@Amsel_ said this:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-polls-missed-bernie-sanders-michigan-upset/ economics doesn't seem to play a big part. I think there's a bit of a fine line to be played between working-class or populist economics and progressivism. Abdul El-Sayed was a progressive, but he lost the gubernatorial primary in Michigan last year. A lot of progressives unfortunately are the type of progressive that's only appealing in deep-blue states, and not working-class ones. Bernie's message was more appealing to young people than blue collar types imo


I read the link, but I cannot see the relevance to your statements here? The link is more a whitewash of the terrible pollings prior to the primary in Michigan, where they projected Hillary winning with a 21% margin, - but what actually happened was that Sanders won with 4%.
Do you have any data that can give some evidence to your claims that Bernie doesn't resonate with blue collar workers, or is that you're personal projections?
In that case, I would take it with a grain of salt:
The reason for me saying this, is that your predictions about the midterm elections where off the chart Big Time, when you wrote this :huh:
My guess is that the Democrats pick up some seats, but not enough to retake the House.


One more thing, its projected that 40% of ppl who vote in 2020 will be millennials, and THAT my friend, will make all the difference.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by momuuu »

Goodspeed wrote:Seriously though, is the base not already energized by their disapproval of Trump? Turnout in the midterms was historic.
Does Trump even stand a chance in 2020, no matter who the dems pick? Maybe I'm being optimistic but I don't see him winning.

Well, it didn't end up nearly as bad as was predicted it seems. I don't actually think his performance would sway republicans from voting republican.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

momuuu wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Seriously though, is the base not already energized by their disapproval of Trump? Turnout in the midterms was historic.
Does Trump even stand a chance in 2020, no matter who the dems pick? Maybe I'm being optimistic but I don't see him winning.

Well, it didn't end up nearly as bad as was predicted it seems. I don't actually think his performance would sway republicans from voting Republican.

I will say, I agree somewhat to that statement @momuuu
The failure moderate Democrats have been doing, over and over again, is flirting with "moderate" Republicans, in the hope they will win them over. In that process they have lost touch with their own base. The result is they did not win Republicans over, and ppl in their base are not motivated to go out and vote for another Corporate Democrat, who talk sweet but are funded by Wallstreet. In that process the Dems have moved more and more to the right, and are prolly more similar to what the Republicans where for 15 years back.
What we saw in the midterm was that so many more ppl registered to vote who had never done so before. This is where the key to winning 2020 is; get your base motivated/energized to support you :P
If the Dems can do that, we will not see another Republican President for a very long time. I will also think that the Republican would have to move many steps back to the center, to have a spitting chance of being relevant again.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by Goodspeed »

momuuu wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Seriously though, is the base not already energized by their disapproval of Trump? Turnout in the midterms was historic.
Does Trump even stand a chance in 2020, no matter who the dems pick? Maybe I'm being optimistic but I don't see him winning.

Well, it didn't end up nearly as bad as was predicted it seems. I don't actually think his performance would sway republicans from voting republican.
It certainly has and will. How many, that remains to be seen.

And what wasn't as bad as predicted? The blue wave? I don't know whose prediction you're going by, but it was very "bad" (I prefer to call it good).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... aa78b531e3
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by Goodspeed »

http://time.com/magazine/us/5280431/may ... cebook.com

Meritocracy gone wrong. Reminded me of @Dolan 's posts

What it also strangely reminded me of is the patching of games. How after a while the meta settles and becomes exploitative, and the game needs to change drastically for the meta to "reset", for the exploits to be removed in one fell swoop. Removing the exploits one by one doesn't work because the meta is settled and people will simply move on to the next exploit. Conclusion: America's constitution needs patched. :hmm:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

Amsel_ wrote:
n0el wrote:@Amsel_ charismatic like you said. I also think Moreno progressive priorities will benefit them. Bernie won Michigan because progressive policies resonate with the blue collar workers. Hillary lost because her policies didn’t.

I'm not sure blue collar workers are too thrilled with progressives. Looking at the reasons Sanders won in Michigan https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... gan-upset/ economics doesn't seem to play a big part. I think there's a bit of a fine line to be played between working-class or populist economics and progressivism. Abdul El-Sayed was a progressive, but he lost the gubernatorial primary in Michigan last year. A lot of progressives unfortunately are the type of progressive that's only appealing in deep-blue states, and not working-class ones. Bernie's message was more appealing to young people than blue collar types imo.

Correct but he also came from completely no where and made a bit of a splash. I went to one of his rallies and it was standing room only and high energy. I think if Whitmer was more moderate he’d have done quite well. He was only slightly left of her though and with none of the name recognition.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

Goodspeed wrote:http://time.com/magazine/us/5280431/may-28th-2018-vol-191-no-20-u-s/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=time&xid=time_socialflow_facebook&utm_source=facebook.com

Meritocracy gone wrong. Reminded me of @Dolan 's posts

What it also strangely reminded me of is the patching of games. How after a while the meta settles and becomes exploitative, and the game needs to change drastically for the meta to "reset", for the exploits to be removed in one fell swoop. Removing the exploits one by one doesn't work because the meta is settled and people will simply move on to the next exploit. Conclusion: America's constitution needs patched. :hmm:


holy moly, that was a very good article :love:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

Goodspeed wrote:http://time.com/magazine/us/5280431/may-28th-2018-vol-191-no-20-u-s/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=time&xid=time_socialflow_facebook&utm_source=facebook.com

Meritocracy gone wrong. Reminded me of @Dolan 's posts

What it also strangely reminded me of is the patching of games. How after a while the meta settles and becomes exploitative, and the game needs to change drastically for the meta to "reset", for the exploits to be removed in one fell swoop. Removing the exploits one by one doesn't work because the meta is settled and people will simply move on to the next exploit. Conclusion: America's constitution needs patched. :hmm:

I’m much less interested in Zoi touching our constitution than the EP.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

:lol:
could b that zoi would have done a great job :!:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Vane patch the Constitution
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by Goodspeed »

n0el wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:http://time.com/magazine/us/5280431/may-28th-2018-vol-191-no-20-u-s/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=time&xid=time_socialflow_facebook&utm_source=facebook.com

Meritocracy gone wrong. Reminded me of @Dolan 's posts

What it also strangely reminded me of is the patching of games. How after a while the meta settles and becomes exploitative, and the game needs to change drastically for the meta to "reset", for the exploits to be removed in one fell swoop. Removing the exploits one by one doesn't work because the meta is settled and people will simply move on to the next exploit. Conclusion: America's constitution needs patched. :hmm:

I’m much less interested in Zoi touching our constitution than the EP.
Zoi is objective, intelligent, and has great attention to detail. I honestly think that if you gave him the resources to hire advisors and take his time, you'd end up with a much better constitution than your current one which is outdated to put it mildly.

I know that, but American voters don't. So there's that...

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