US Politics Megathread
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- Ninja
- Posts: 14364
- Joined: Mar 26, 2015
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Taxation is theft!
- occamslightsaber
- Retired Contributor
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Define “fair share”. In Scandinavian countries that Bernie bros love so much, tax rates are generally flat, which is fair since both the upper class and middle class share the burden. But that’s not what Bernie and Steyer are proposing.
The scientific term for China creating free units is Mitoe-sis.
I intend all my puns.
I intend all my puns.
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Sweden doesn't have a flat tax rate and neither does Finland. The Netherlands, which is politically and economically pretty comparable to Scandinavia, doesn't have a flat tax rate either. So I don't know what you are on about, but you should do some more fact checking.occamslightsaber wrote:Define “fair share”. In Scandinavian countries that Bernie bros love so much, tax rates are generally flat, which is fair since both the upper class and middle class share the burden. But that’s not what Bernie and Steyer are proposing.
- occamslightsaber
- Retired Contributor
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Which is why I said “generally flat”, not completely flat. A Swede who earns about 1.5 times the average income pays the same rate as another Swede who earns 10 times the average income.RefluxSemantic wrote:Sweden doesn't have a flat tax rate and neither does Finland. The Netherlands, which is politically and economically pretty comparable to Scandinavia, doesn't have a flat tax rate either. So I don't know what you are on about, but you should do some more fact checking.occamslightsaber wrote:Define “fair share”. In Scandinavian countries that Bernie bros love so much, tax rates are generally flat, which is fair since both the upper class and middle class share the burden. But that’s not what Bernie and Steyer are proposing.
The scientific term for China creating free units is Mitoe-sis.
I intend all my puns.
I intend all my puns.
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Does a 50% increase in tax rate sound flat to you?occamslightsaber wrote:Which is why I said “generally flat”, not completely flat.RefluxSemantic wrote:Sweden doesn't have a flat tax rate and neither does Finland. The Netherlands, which is politically and economically pretty comparable to Scandinavia, doesn't have a flat tax rate either. So I don't know what you are on about, but you should do some more fact checking.occamslightsaber wrote:Define “fair share”. In Scandinavian countries that Bernie bros love so much, tax rates are generally flat, which is fair since both the upper class and middle class share the burden. But that’s not what Bernie and Steyer are proposing.
FYI:
NL has three categories, 36.7%, 38.1% and 51.75%
Finland has four categories, 6%, 17.25%, 21.25%, 31.25%
For Sweden wikipedia writes that "Taxable income is reduced by general deductions which means that the marginal tax in practice varies between 7% on incomes just above 18,800 kronor to 60.1% on incomes above 675,700 kronor."
So I don't see how any of this is flat..
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
It's just not flat tax, it's a progressive tax rate.
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Lol, the Netherlands' lowest tax rate is our highest.RefluxSemantic wrote:NL has three categories, 36.7%, 38.1% and 51.75%
- occamslightsaber
- Retired Contributor
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
50% across the board? Maybe, but that’s not what Bernie or Steyer is proposing and thus not what this discussion is about.
By “flat”, we mean that tax rates don’t change as frequently across income levels. Looks like NL and Finland also have flatter tax rates than the US, where we have 7 tax brackets. Graphs demonstrate this the best, so just google “flat tax graph”.
By “flat”, we mean that tax rates don’t change as frequently across income levels. Looks like NL and Finland also have flatter tax rates than the US, where we have 7 tax brackets. Graphs demonstrate this the best, so just google “flat tax graph”.
The scientific term for China creating free units is Mitoe-sis.
I intend all my puns.
I intend all my puns.
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
I didn't find that definition when I lookd up flat tax though. I think you're using the wrong term for what you want to demonstrate.
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
When he says "flat", he apparently means "flatter" or "not as progressive". No definition of "flat tax rate" outside of occam's head applies to the countries mentioned, "generally" or otherwise.
- occamslightsaber
- Retired Contributor
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Exhibit B seems pretty flat compared to C and D, doesn’t it?
@Goodspeed Too bad I never claimed those countries had a flat tax rate. I used “generally flat” or “flatter” instead.
The scientific term for China creating free units is Mitoe-sis.
I intend all my puns.
I intend all my puns.
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Exhibit B seems pretty not flat at all? Or do you call stairs flat?
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Look at those flat stairs baby
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
What a beautiful flat farm
- occamslightsaber
- Retired Contributor
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Hence the phrase “compared to C and D”. Terrain with only 3 different levels is flatter than one with 7 or 10 different levels if you prefer such analogy.
The scientific term for China creating free units is Mitoe-sis.
I intend all my puns.
I intend all my puns.
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Don't use the word flat to try to describe things that aren't flat. Also I don't see how "generally flat" means "more flat" ?
- occamslightsaber
- Retired Contributor
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
I’m mostly paraphrasing from economists, like the guy who wrote this piece: https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinav ... t-spending. So if you have an issue with the term “flat” take it up with those economists.RefluxSemantic wrote:Don't use the word flat to try to describe things that aren't flat. Also I don't see how "generally flat" means "more flat" ?
The scientific term for China creating free units is Mitoe-sis.
I intend all my puns.
I intend all my puns.
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
But they say "rather flat" which is clear to me, as oppose to "generally flat".
- occamslightsaber
- Retired Contributor
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Great, now you know what I meant. So what was your point again?RefluxSemantic wrote:But they say "rather flat" which is clear to me, as oppose to "generally flat".
The scientific term for China creating free units is Mitoe-sis.
I intend all my puns.
I intend all my puns.
- fightinfrenchman
- Ninja
- Posts: 23505
- Joined: Oct 17, 2015
- Location: Pennsylvania
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
So, what you're saying is that the USA tax rates are more progressive, but generally lower, than those for Scandinavian countries?
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
I wonder if instead of using tax brackets, there's a function we could use where you plug in your income, and you automatically get a tax rate. Your tax rate would automatically increase exponentially with income.
Domain: [0 , infinity)
Range: [10% , 70%)
There are people here with advanced degrees in physics and engineering, aren't there? Surely someone who's not a fucking retard like myself knows a function that can accomplish this. I don't know if this would screw up the framework we have where you only get charged the tax rate on the income that pulls you into that bracket, but can still pay lower taxes on a portion of your income, so that there's no disincentive to boosting your income. If we wanted to get next level with it, what about an infinite series of $1,000 tax brackets that takes this principle into account? I wonder what a formula for that would look like.
I should've studied math in college.
Domain: [0 , infinity)
Range: [10% , 70%)
There are people here with advanced degrees in physics and engineering, aren't there? Surely someone who's not a fucking retard like myself knows a function that can accomplish this. I don't know if this would screw up the framework we have where you only get charged the tax rate on the income that pulls you into that bracket, but can still pay lower taxes on a portion of your income, so that there's no disincentive to boosting your income. If we wanted to get next level with it, what about an infinite series of $1,000 tax brackets that takes this principle into account? I wonder what a formula for that would look like.
I should've studied math in college.
- occamslightsaber
- Retired Contributor
- Posts: 1326
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- ESO: L1BERTYPR1ME
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Well, my point was that Bernie and Steyer’s ideas of taxing rich people their “fair share” do not sound very fair. The flatter Scandinavian tax model seems fairer, but of course those two candidates won’t publicly support it despite touting Northern Europe as a model for our country, because that would lose middle class votes if they did.
The scientific term for China creating free units is Mitoe-sis.
I intend all my puns.
I intend all my puns.
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- Gendarme
- Posts: 5996
- Joined: Jun 4, 2019
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Do you have any source on what Bernie is specifically suggesting?
- fightinfrenchman
- Ninja
- Posts: 23505
- Joined: Oct 17, 2015
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: 2020 Democratic Primary
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
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