US Politics Megathread

[deleted_user]

There has to be a name for this.

[RefluxSemantic]

One of the advantages I'm seeing for Bernie Sanders is that it's really hard to attack him at this point. He's been extremely consistent, so it's hard to dig up something from the past to use that against him. Compare this to how Bernie Sanders succesfully attacked Joe Biden on his social security record, which looking back on it seems to have been a pretty influential attack.

[occamslightsaber]

One of the advantages I'm seeing for Bernie Sanders is that it's really hard to attack him at this point. He's been extremely consistent, so it's hard to dig up something from the past to use that against him. Compare this to how Bernie Sanders succesfully attacked Joe Biden on his social security record, which looking back on it seems to have been a pretty influential attack.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1580673878

Food for thought.

[RefluxSemantic]

The socialism bad claim is the only thing. And it's straight up retarded. As if European countries are suffering under this terrible 'socialism'.

[deleted_user]

One of the advantages I'm seeing for Bernie Sanders is that it's really hard to attack him at this point. He's been extremely consistent, so it's hard to dig up something from the past to use that against him. Compare this to how Bernie Sanders succesfully attacked Joe Biden on his social security record, which looking back on it seems to have been a pretty influential attack.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1580673878

Food for thought.

paywall

[fightinfrenchman]

The socialism bad claim is the only thing. And it's straight up retarded. As if European countries are suffering under this terrible 'socialism'.

This is just a failure of language, really. Which European countries are actually "socialist"

[RefluxSemantic]

The socialism bad claim is the only thing. And it's straight up retarded. As if European countries are suffering under this terrible 'socialism'.

This is just a failure of language, really. Which European countries are actually "socialist"

The definition of socialism is pretty vague, but it's not the same as hard communism by any means. Most European countries do the things that Sanders proposes, like Medicare for All or Tuition free (or very cheap) colleges, social security and minimum wages. Call it socialism if you want, call it actually giving a fuck about the wellbeing of your people, but really it doesn't even matter. It's about the things Sanders proposes, and none of these are radical or would endanger the USA.

[occamslightsaber]

One of the advantages I'm seeing for Bernie Sanders is that it's really hard to attack him at this point. He's been extremely consistent, so it's hard to dig up something from the past to use that against him. Compare this to how Bernie Sanders succesfully attacked Joe Biden on his social security record, which looking back on it seems to have been a pretty influential attack.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1580673878

Food for thought.

paywall

Welp, tldr is that Bernie Sander’s idea of “democratic socialism” has changed drastically over time.

From the article:

He had a dif­fer­ent vi­sion in the 1970s, when he sought statewide of­fice four times as the nom­i­nee of the Lib­erty Union Party of Ver­mont. Cam­paign­ing for U.S. Sen­ate in 1971, he de­manded the na­tion­al­iza­tion of util­i­ties. In 1973 he pro­posed a fed­eral takeover of “the en­tire en­ergy in­dus­try,” and in 1974 he wanted a 100% tax on all in­come above $1 mil­lion. In 1976 he as­serted that work­ers needed to “take im­me­di­ate con­trol of the econ­omy if we are to sur­vive” and called for “pub­lic own­er­ship of util­i­ties, banks and ma­jor in­dus­tries.” He had a plan for “pub­lic con­trol over cap­i­tal.” As late as 1987 he as­serted that “democ­racy means pub­lic own­er­ship of the ma­jor means of pro­duc­tion.”

[deleted_user]

Ooo dicey.

[n0el]

I’m pretty sure he’s been consistent on that

[occamslightsaber]

God damnit

Just got a message from the Sanders campaign as well (my 2nd time actually) and it reads:

Hi [my name]! It's Emma with Bernie 2020. Bernie has been fighting on the side of working people against a corrupt corporate elite for his entire life. Are you in for Bernie?

[deleted_user]

Oh if only we know to what heinous ends our information is really being used for. But a mobile text is something tangible and apparent and annoying. Sanders voted against the Patriot Act, despite its clever name proactively branding him a national dissenter. Oh, but the Powers That Be are not under the government tag, really. The Patriot Act is not the problem, but it abets what can be. It starts the greater discussion. More and more though I am of the opinion the great discussions pale against climate change and its ramifications. But I'm complicit in my lack of recourse. Oh and Greta Thunberg is a little girl lmao. What a whiny little girl lmao. I identify she's a whiny little girl.

Reminder: identity politics are what the Powers That Be encourage on either side to diffuse the collective focus from focusing on immoral corporate practices. Read: corporate can just mean money, big money, and its quest for bigger money and nothing else. We, things with money, are meant to impart our money unto them. Money transcends political attitude. Money is unaffected and retains its same worth in all imparters. The miracle of capitalism is to achieve this process without apparently disaffecting its lowest participants, because it gives them more money to give them. It improves them, even, against an antiquated datum. Such a thing can be accomplished to levels agreed as satisfactory by the masses in a more regulated state than is present. Further improvements can be made as compared to now. Consistent with good betting practice, and because it's all legally obliged as publicized, big corporate contributions are split even across the two parties. This leaves me with a lot of questions. I can only assume good betting practice trumps all.

[evilcheadar]

The socialism bad claim is the only thing. And it's straight up retarded. As if European countries are suffering under this terrible 'socialism'.

Joker licking the rectum knife was “straight up retarded”

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[lejend]

God damnit

Just got a message from the Sanders campaign as well (my 2nd time actually) and it reads:

Hi [my name]! It's Emma with Bernie 2020. Bernie has been fighting on the side of working people against a corrupt corporate elite for his entire life. Are you in for Bernie?

Love how they named the bot Emma to make it seem like Bernie has female followers

[oats13]

The socialism bad claim is the only thing. And it's straight up retarded. As if European countries are suffering under this terrible 'socialism'.

This is just a failure of language, really. Which European countries are actually "socialist"

None ofc.

There is a major language block going on here- socialism in europe actually is socialism which is why no-one goes for it.

What you guys are talking about is nothing more than social democracy which IS NOT interchangeable with democratic socialism- itself merely defining the means by which one 'achieves' socialism (as opposed to revolutionary socialism) and does not denote the particulars of said 'socialism', which is handy ofc.

Similarly Liberal/liberal have different meanings as do liberal/left.

In Britain there are mainstream centre-ground Conservatives who are also liberals and social democrats with no conflict.

People would be better served by talking about specific policies imo. to avoid baggage- for instance here the N.H.S was a cross-party idea, was implemented cross-party by three different governments and is unquestionably supported by all parties.

Specificity is advised when inter-mingling academic language with the everyday sort.

[occamslightsaber]

God damnit

Just got a message from the Sanders campaign as well (my 2nd time actually) and it reads:

Hi [my name]! It's Emma with Bernie 2020. Bernie has been fighting on the side of working people against a corrupt corporate elite for his entire life. Are you in for Bernie?

Love how they named the bot Emma to make it seem like Bernie has female followers

I think the first text I got from the Sanders campaign was from “Paul”. At least his outreach campaign is active, I suppose, because the only other political ads I’ve seen are from Trump and Bloomberg.

[Goodspeed]

The socialism bad claim is the only thing. And it's straight up retarded. As if European countries are suffering under this terrible 'socialism'.

This is just a failure of language, really. Which European countries are actually "socialist"

There is a major language block going on here- socialism in europe actually is socialism which is why no-one goes for it.

I don't think that's accurate. Our "socialist" party (literally called that) is just a far left party that is advocating more government intervention in the free market. It's not saying workers should own the means of production.

[oats13]

Show hidden quotes

The socialism bad claim is the only thing. And it's straight up retarded. As if European countries are suffering under this terrible 'socialism'.

This is just a failure of language, really. Which European countries are actually "socialist"

There is a major language block going on here- socialism in europe actually is socialism which is why no-one goes for it.

I don't think that's accurate. Our "socialist" party (literally called that) is just a far left party that is advocating more government intervention in the free market. It's not saying workers should own the means of production.

Then they should get a better name.

I could reform the Nazi party as something other than Nazism but I would never get voted in.

There used to be sitcom in Britain called 'Only fools and horses' in which one of the characters was a particularly unintelligent road sweeper- in a memorable scene between 'Del' and 'Trigger'

'Trigger' (the road sweeper) declared-

" I've had this this brush for thirty years"

'Del' "really?"

'Trigger' "yeah, it's had five new heads and four new poles"

The point being it is not the same brush- however it fulfills them same role- what exactly are the pole and head of socialism? what role does it fulfill? what you describe above is simply social democracy.

Otherwise it's just a privatisation of language

[RefluxSemantic]

I don't know dude, a quick google search for example led me to figure out that socialism dates from before Marx, and has always been ill-defined.

[Goodspeed]

Show hidden quotes

The socialism bad claim is the only thing. And it's straight up retarded. As if European countries are suffering under this terrible 'socialism'.

This is just a failure of language, really. Which European countries are actually "socialist"

There is a major language block going on here- socialism in europe actually is socialism which is why no-one goes for it.

I don't think that's accurate. Our "socialist" party (literally called that) is just a far left party that is advocating more government intervention in the free market. It's not saying workers should own the means of production.

Then they should get a better name.

I agree but if a political party is calling themselves socialist and not actually being socialist doesn't that tell you something about how our country as a whole apparently defines the word?
At the very least it shows that "socialism" in europe doesn't always mean socialism, which was your claim.

[iNcog]

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[RefluxSemantic]

What's wrong with workers owning the company they work for?

That the oligarchs can't control the company anymore then

[jesus3]

socialism will take away your whole existence and you should fear it, better stock up on instant ramen noodles and hide under tinfoil hats immediately

[iNcog]

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