US Politics Megathread

[Goodspeed]

Neoliberalism sounds like what we call liberalism. Here, it's leaning right on the political spectrum. Our current ruling party exemplifies it.

[n0el]

Liberalism is a broad term much like socialism. Like socialism, It’s meaning can be perverted to associate it strictly with one subsection. Ultimately it does an injustice to the prevailing thought group.

Neoliberalism is more like democratic socialism in that it is a subsection of the broad idea with specifics and a history.

[occamslightsaber]

The way I see it, people that are left care for other people and people that are not left either dont really get it or they don't care for other people or both.

It saddens me that far too many people think this way nowadays on both sides of the aisle.

[Amsel_]

Final Nevada predictions?

[Goodspeed]

Sanders 1st Pete 2nd and it's closer than expected (say 28-20). Biden only gets about 10%

[RefluxSemantic]

First vote will be something like 31 Bernie - 16 Warren - 16 Buttigieg - 12 Biden and then second alignment Buttigieg will profit some.

[n0el]

Sanders 1st Pete 2nd and it's closer than expected (say 28-20). Biden only gets about 10%

I think it will be closer than that. Warren will be 3rd and around 20%

[RefluxSemantic]

The way I see it, people that are left care for other people and people that are not left either dont really get it or they don't care for other people or both.

It saddens me that far too many people think this way nowadays on both sides of the aisle.

You gotta explain me how a person that is right cares about other people while a person that is left does not.

[gibson]

The way I see it, people that are left care for other people and people that are not left either dont really get it or they don't care for other people or both.

It saddens me that far too many people think this way nowadays on both sides of the aisle.

You gotta explain me how a person that is right cares about other people while a person that is left does not.

You cant make a claim and than ask someone to prove you wrong lol, anyway thats an absurd statement, there are tons of right leaning people who care about other people.

[RefluxSemantic]

I didn't say right people can't care about left people, but I can't see how the opposite of my statement is as true as my statement. Leftism is intrinsically about caring about other people - even if you don't know them - and rightism is intrinsically individualistic.

[RefluxSemantic]

from predictit.org

[Goodspeed]

The way I see it, people that are left care for other people and people that are not left either dont really get it or they don't care for other people or both.

It saddens me that far too many people think this way nowadays on both sides of the aisle.

You gotta explain me how a person that is right cares about other people while a person that is left does not.

I think it's fair to say there's a positive correlation between empathy and left-leaning political ideology, but many still believe in trickle-down economics or more nuanced versions of that concept. A lot of people care about "freedom from government" and are afraid, somewhat reasonably, of economic systems where government gains too much power. And many think PC culture is going too far, which isn't entirely unreasonable either. They don't want to be repressed by their government themselves, but it's not a stretch to say they don't want other people to be repressed either.

Besides, it can be equally selfish to support progressive policies. Maybe you like the idea of minimum wage increase because you work for minimum wage. Or you support an overhaul of the health care system because you're paying way too much for it. Etc.

[Goodspeed]

Liberalism is a broad term much like socialism. Like socialism, It’s meaning can be perverted to associate it strictly with one subsection. Ultimately it does an injustice to the prevailing thought group.

Neoliberalism is more like democratic socialism in that it is a subsection of the broad idea with specifics and a history.

I think rather than it being a broad term it's become misused, particularly in the US. Wikipedia imo correctly defines liberalism as supporting the free market and limited government. This was my understanding of the word before I started following US politics more than national politics. I think the reason it's misused is that progressives identify as liberal on the social end and their understanding of individual freedom, the basic concept of liberalism, dictates more government regulation rather than less. So they started to describe economic progressivism as "liberalism" as well.

Neoliberalism therefore is not actually "new" at all. It is, in fact, liberalism. Your ideology is rather a mix between economic progressivism and social liberalism. But actually now that I Google it, for convenience economic progressivism seems to be included in social liberalism these days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism. Note that it's described as "left liberalism" in Germany, implying that conventional liberalism is a right-wing ideology, "new liberalism" in the UK and "modern liberalism" in the US. It would make much more sense to assign the term "neoliberalism" to that. I don't know where that went wrong.

[RefluxSemantic]

I think you make good points. I said they either dont care about others or dont get how things work. I dont think believing in trickle down economics is reasonable in 2020, and neither do I think its reasonable to fear increased government interference as the USA (because there is a lot of precedent that shows you have nothing to fear under a social democracy).

I think you make a good point though that some people that vote left do this in self interest. I think however that true leftism is intrinsically about the wellbeing of others.

[Goodspeed]

I think you make good points. I said they either dont care about others or dont get how things work. I dont think believing in trickle down economics is reasonable in 2020, and neither do I think its reasonable to fear increased government interference as the USA (because there is a lot of precedent that shows you have nothing to fear under a social democracy).

That's fair and I would agree. But another way of saying that is you don't agree with them. It's sounds a lot harsher to say that it must mean they either don't care about people or don't get it. But I do understand that point of view and to an extent hold it myself, tbh.

[Amsel_]

Prediction: Sanders, Warren, and Steyer underperform. I don't think Buttigieg will do as well as he did in Iowa and New Hampshire; he won't win, and he won't lose by the skin on his teeth either. Biden I feel isn't going to have an embarrassing result, like he did in the last two primaries; he'll get somewhere between 12 and 17 points. Klobuchar will overperform. My rankings are:

1) Sanders
2) Buttigieg
3) Biden
4) Klobuchar
5) Warren
6) Steyer

Klobuchar beating Warren is probably the boldest prediction. But there's not much to base predictions, so we can predict whatever the hell we want really.

[n0el]

@Goodspeed ya I agree, and I wonder when the ear posts what he believes in if he’s truly a neoliberal or if he’s more of what you describe.

In its purest form, liberalism is support of individual ownership (private property) and individual rights. Classical liberal economics is essentially support of free market systems. Keynes took this idea and challenged its holes by proposing a market system where the government acts in order to protect individuals from market failures (birth of social liberalism). These market interferences were what then led to the neoliberal era, where the Mont Pelerin and Chicago school basically reverted to a model where the government only exists to defend your private property and any market interference is an abomination. Essentially, the purest form of economic liberalism possible.

[n0el]

Prediction: Sanders, Warren, and Steyer underperform. I don't think Buttigieg will do as well as he did in Iowa and New Hampshire; he won't win, and he won't lose by the skin on his teeth either. Biden I feel isn't going to have an embarrassing result, like he did in the last two primaries; he'll get somewhere between 12 and 17 points. Klobuchar will overperform. My rankings are:

1) Sanders
2) Buttigieg
3) Biden
4) Klobuchar
5) Warren
6) Steyer

Klobuchar beating Warren is probably the boldest prediction. But there's not much to base predictions, so we can predict whatever the hell we want really.

I could see this. I’m really curious to see the difference between the early vote and the votes today. I’m expecting a Warren surge over Pete and Amy in today’s voting, but she might be too far behind in the early vote to make up for it. Also really curious to see if Steyer meets expectations. If he does, it bodes well for him in SC.

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[Cometk]

I would be very surprised to see Klobuchar get the same success she saw in New Hampshire. NH might be a diet Minnesota but I don’t know that the demographics of Nevada are gonna fuck with her the same way.

[RefluxSemantic]

I think you make good points. I said they either dont care about others or dont get how things work. I dont think believing in trickle down economics is reasonable in 2020, and neither do I think its reasonable to fear increased government interference as the USA (because there is a lot of precedent that shows you have nothing to fear under a social democracy).

That's fair and I would agree. But another way of saying that is you don't agree with them. It's sounds a lot harsher to say that it must mean they either don't care about people or don't get it. But I do understand that point of view and to an extent hold it myself, tbh.

What can I say. I'm a fan of overly strong statements.

[Amsel_]

I got my mail-in ballot today. Can you believe they make you use your own stamps?

[Goodspeed]

That actually is quite ridiculous

[n0el]

I got my mail-in ballot today. Can you believe they make you use your own stamps?

Democracy they said

[RefluxSemantic]

Prediction: Sanders, Warren, and Steyer underperform. I don't think Buttigieg will do as well as he did in Iowa and New Hampshire; he won't win, and he won't lose by the skin on his teeth either. Biden I feel isn't going to have an embarrassing result, like he did in the last two primaries; he'll get somewhere between 12 and 17 points. Klobuchar will overperform. My rankings are:

1) Sanders
2) Buttigieg
3) Biden
4) Klobuchar
5) Warren
6) Steyer

Klobuchar beating Warren is probably the boldest prediction. But there's not much to base predictions, so we can predict whatever the hell we want really.

I could see this. I’m really curious to see the difference between the early vote and the votes today. I’m expecting a Warren surge over Pete and Amy in today’s voting, but she might be too far behind in the early vote to make up for it. Also really curious to see if Steyer meets expectations. If he does, it bodes well for him in SC.

Polls didn't really show a big rise for Warren after the debate though. She landed some nice punches on Bloomberg, and that helps in discrediting him, but I think she might have failed at promoting herself. Basically she ended up doing the dirty work for Sanders.