US Politics Megathread

[fightinfrenchman]

"These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?" Sanders, 2011. I don't understand why you're pretending that Sanders hasn't presented himself as socialist for decades and how that is different from Obama.

[n0el]

OMG. Bernie said that Moscow has nicer subway stations than New York.

[gibson]

Can we please not dodge the fact that the ear stupidly attacked Sanders for saying something that Obama has literally said as well. I want Ear to attempt to justify his ridiculousness.

Why does it make it okay just because Obama said it lol. Obama was a fine president but far from perfect and said/did a lot of stuff that wasn’t okay

[n0el]

Its not about that, its about hypocrisy. The lib commentators will crucify anyone who is remotely critical of Obama, but when Bernie or anyone for that matter say the same thing, they get killed.

[RefluxSemantic]

Ear is using it as some sort of "look at that crazy communist" smear even though moderates apperantly think the exact same thing. (also given that ear is supporting Joe "remember I was Obama's VP" Biden I'm assuming he thinks Obama is okay.)

[gibson]

I guess I just dont subscribe to the current way things are where if you like you candidate your mouth is also around their dick and they can do no wrong.

[n0el]

I agree

[RefluxSemantic]

I don't subscribe to that either.

However, there's nothing wrong with pointing at the fact that Cuba has done some things right too. They have a higher literacy rate than the USA and they do provide medicare for all.

[gibson]

Nazi Germany did some things right too, doesn't mean you should use it as an example.

[RefluxSemantic]

What a great comparison Gibson.

[n0el]

Nazi Germany did some things right too, doesn't mean you should use it as an example.

Bernie answered why the Cuban people didn't overthrow Castro, and he answered that he gave them some good things while condemning the authoritarianism. What do you think he should have said? People just jump so fast on these one liner clips and never read the context. This is such a major problem in our society. Lets go viral! Fuck understanding a complex situation.

[RefluxSemantic]

Nazi Germany did some things right too, doesn't mean you should use it as an example.

Bernie answered why the Cuban people didn't overthrow Castro, and he answered that he gave them some good things while condemning the authoritarianism. What do you think he should have said? People just jump so fast on these one liner clips and never read the context. This is such a major problem in our society. Lets go viral! Fuck understanding a complex situation.

I'm pretty sure that Cuba is planning to mass murder all jews so you can't say that!

[RefluxSemantic]

I think this is also the nuance that most of the USA has completely lost due to the cold war. Communism and communist regimes tend to be pretty terrible yeah, but that's usually mostly because they are scary dictatorial regimes that don't care about anything but their regime and that are often suffering from extreme nepotism. But you have to discriminate between that and between some of the more functional things that happened, like healthcare for all. What if there is the ability to do those good things in a democratic way, without corruption, suppression and nepotism?

[gibson]

Nazi Germany did some things right too, doesn't mean you should use it as an example.

Bernie answered why the Cuban people didn't overthrow Castro, and he answered that he gave them some good things while condemning the authoritarianism. What do you think he should have said? People just jump so fast on these one liner clips and never read the context. This is such a major problem in our society. Lets go viral! Fuck understanding a complex situation.

I don't know the context nor what he said, but regardless of the truth of his statement saying anything pro Cuba isn't going to win you support.

[gibson]

What a great comparison Gibson.

It wasn't meant to compare Cuba to nazi Germany, but rather to say that no matter the truth of a statement, saying something pro Cuba is not going to win you support in the US.

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[occamslightsaber]

Bernie’s fondness for Latin American socialists (many of whom turned out to be tyrants) has always been a problem for him. He could have answered the question in myriad ways by citing the Cuban government’s suppression of political opposition, censorship efforts and/or its indoctrination programs. Instead, he decided to spin it in a way that validates Castro’s authoritarian regime. It’s absurd to think that the people of Cuba haven’t overthrown Castro because of his literacy program and the most rudimentary universal healthcare. You know which country also had near 100% literacy rate and a better healthcare system than Cuba? The Soviet Union. But it still collapsed after perestroika and glasnost reforms because the Soviet people decided that they are not worth the abject poverty and oppression that came with the package. The people of Cuba haven’t done the same because they’ve been kept in the dark and also have a gun to their heads, not unlike North Koreans. Bernie should know better than to appear pro-Castro if he actually wants to win over Cuban-Americans, whose support he’ll need to beat Trump in key states.

[gibson]

Bernie’s fondness for Latin American socialists (many of whom turned out to be tyrants) has always been a problem for him. He could have answered the question in myriad ways by citing the Cuban government’s suppression of political opposition, censorship efforts and/or its indoctrination programs. Instead, he decided to spin it in a way that validates Castro’s authoritarian regime. It’s absurd to think that the people of Cuba haven’t overthrown Castro because of his literacy program and the most rudimentary universal healthcare. You know which country also had near 100% literacy rate and a better healthcare system than Cuba? The Soviet Union. But it still collapsed after perestroika and glasnost reforms because the Soviet people decided that they are not worth the abject poverty and oppression that came with the package. The people of Cuba haven’t done the same because they’ve been kept in the dark and also have a gun to their heads, not unlike North Koreans. Bernie should know better than to appear pro-Castro if he actually wants to win over Cuban-Americans, whose support he’ll need to beat Trump in key states.

Well said. Even if his statement was 100 percent right you never want to appear pro authoritarian communist dictatorship. It only gives more ammunition to his opponents while continuing to cement in moderates and independents that hes too far left.

[n0el]

he literally compared Cuba to North Korea in the Interview.

[gibson]

he literally compared Cuba to North Korea in the Interview.

That doesn't matter. He could say 99 things about how terrible Cuba was and 1 thing about how good it was and people will latch on to the 1 percent.

[spanky4ever]

I dont even think Bernie is particularly awful, I just think many of his supporters are.

Hmmmmm
Some of Bernies staffers, who happen to be of color and female, has gotten tons of hate thrown their way, even some threats to their life. I do not see Bernie throwing this in his opponent's face all the time! As he is saying, it's about the politics - stupid, and he is not about to return the favors to the Bernie hating crowd/media, who has nothing else on him, then the false narrative that his supporters are particularly bad. Sorry, but a false narrative, is still a false narrative, no matter how many times you repeat it
Btw, I like Surrota, he is a great person, and I have been following him way before he became the "writer" for Sanders. He has always made a lot of sense to me. Now, you can maybe find some sentence he wrote, that was too far out, or maybe misinterpreted by some ppl (who only want to be fair and nonbiased (my ass) - but to judge Surrota on that, is also stupid and "not knowing - not interested" - kind of style. I like informed ppl, making informed statements!!)

[occamslightsaber]

he literally compared Cuba to North Korea in the Interview.

He should have stopped there, rather than trying to sell his policy ideas based on Cuban experiments.

[n0el]

That’s a legitimate opinion to have, but again my problem is that it’s extremely inconsistent. It’s always attacks on the left in terms of comments like that with regards to Latin American leftists. No one says shit when Obama or another prominent dem praises China or Saudi Arabia. It’s just red baiting and it’s fundamentally dishonest.

[RefluxSemantic]

I don't think it's a legitemate opinion to have though. Avoiding truth because it's attached to something you don't like is ridiculous.

[spanky4ever]

he literally compared Cuba to North Korea in the Interview.

He should have stopped there, rather than trying to sell his policy ideas based on Cuban experiments.

I am not defending the restrictions on liberty they have in Cuba, BUT they have way better health care coverage than you ppl in the USA! And I wonder how far they could have gone, in terms of economic growth, if not for the 50-year long economic sanctions???
But that is just me, wondering