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No Flag RefluxSemantic
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by RefluxSemantic »

occamslightsaber wrote:
n0el wrote:So you basically just admit that their system is working better? I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are arguing. They focus on preventative health, which works. We focus on spending trillions of dollars on treatment instead of preventing the problem in the first place.
You seem to be comparing apples with oranges. Cuban doctors do a good job treating common illnesses and their government can even force abortions to prevent infant mortality. But since they donā€™t have access to modern medical tech, they canā€™t detect cancer as early as American doctors do or treat rare genetic conditions because they canā€™t spare their limited resources on relatively few cases. Their goal is essentially to provide the greatest good for the greatest number, hence their focus on preventive care.
The USA struggles to treat cancer without bankrupting their citizens though.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

Btw I like headbanging Metallica ;) I make an exception for them
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by occamslightsaber »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
occamslightsaber wrote:
n0el wrote:So you basically just admit that their system is working better? I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are arguing. They focus on preventative health, which works. We focus on spending trillions of dollars on treatment instead of preventing the problem in the first place.
You seem to be comparing apples with oranges. Cuban doctors do a good job treating common illnesses and their government can even force abortions to prevent infant mortality. But since they donā€™t have access to modern medical tech, they canā€™t detect cancer as early as American doctors do or treat rare genetic conditions because they canā€™t spare their limited resources on relatively few cases. Their goal is essentially to provide the greatest good for the greatest number, hence their focus on preventive care.
The USA struggles to treat cancer without bankrupting their citizens though.
Maybe, but we were talking about quality rather than coverage.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

In honesty, would you not crave for another upset in USA? I mean you see all the wealth are going to the top 1 thought of the pop? is that fair?`
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by Amsel_ »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
Amsel_ wrote:
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Our life expectancy is suppressed by things like suicide, drug overdoses, alcoholism, and the like. It's not necessarily reflective of our healthcare, and it is more reflective of larger sociological issues. Would it be fair of me to go murder 100k Belgians a year, and then use the ensuing decline in life expectancy to critique their healthcare? Of course not.
It's funny that you mention Belgium. Their suicide rate is higher than that of the USA.

Could it be that your life expectancy is bad because many people can't afford proper healthcare? You know, just a crazy thought.
Every single person in the country, even illegal immigrants, can walk into a hospital and get top-quality healthcare, if it is vital. Our issue isn't people dying on the streets because they can't afford healthcare. Our issue is that the current structure of our healthcare system is very expensive to the average person, and we're all trying to figure out the best way to lower costs. One faction cites socialized healthcare systems that can provide similar quality healthcare at lower macro-costs, and obviously no direct cost to people getting healthcare. Another faction wants to mix elements of private and public healthcare to achieve a healthy balance. (there are many sub-groups of this faction that disagree with each other, but this is overall approach is the status quo) And a third faction believes that the public elements in our current healthcare system are what's driving up prices.

We don't reject people having heart attacks from the hospital if they fall unconscious before pulling out their credit card. We don't use witch-doctors for our medical treatments. We aren't a primitive tribe in need of enlightenment from the all-knowing Europeans. The U.S. is a world leader in medical innovation and education. Our healthcare issues are almost entirely economic ones. And it's important not to start turning economic issues into moral crusades, because people on moral crusades have a tendency to not be willing to admit it when they're wrong. I was willing to change my position to support universal healthcare after being convinced that it was the best approach. I do not think people who see the quality of Cuban healthcare as a hill worth dying on would do the same, should they be provided with decisive proof that, say, the Heritage Foundation is right about healthcare.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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Post by n0el »

It isn't that people can't walk in and get emergency care. it is that people can't afford to prevent the emergency in the first place.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

what is democracy?
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

??? what is it
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by deleted_user »

iwillspankyou wrote:??? what is it
Democracy is a music video.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

deleted_user wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:??? what is it
Democracy is a music video.
Music travel far my friend;) so do reason :!:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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Post by deleted_user »

Nice to see Spanky back :smile:
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by gibson »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
Amsel_ wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Our life expectancy is suppressed by things like suicide, drug overdoses, alcoholism, and the like. It's not necessarily reflective of our healthcare, and it is more reflective of larger sociological issues. Would it be fair of me to go murder 100k Belgians a year, and then use the ensuing decline in life expectancy to critique their healthcare? Of course not.
It's funny that you mention Belgium. Their suicide rate is higher than that of the USA.

Could it be that your life expectancy is bad because many people can't afford proper healthcare? You know, just a crazy thought.
No not really. Most of the things that kill Americans kill Europeans at a similar rate.

The leading cause of death in the US is Heart disease. We have slightly more deaths than the average comparable country( although less than Germany and Austria). This is largely due to our obesity problem, which stems largely from poverty rather than lack of healthcare. Source

2nd leading cause is cancer. You can see here that our survival rates for the major cancers is in line with, and often better than, the other first world countries.

3rd leading cause of death is unintentional injuries, obviously this isn't do to poor healthcare. I'm sure you can find a few specific cases where someone dies of an injury because of mistreatment, but the same can be said anywhere.

4th leading cause of death is respiratory disease. This is largely due to smoking. The US has about 50 deaths per 100,000, which is less than most European countries.

5th leading cause of death is strokes and cerebrovascular diseases. The death rate from strokes in the US similar to most European countries.

6th leading cause of death is Alzheimers. Alzheimers has no medical cure, so obviously this isn't due to healthcare.

7th leading cause of death is diabetes. Here is the first place the US doesn't do as well as most of Europe/Canada. This is likely due to the cost of insulin.

So long story short, out of the top 7 causes of death(which is all causes above 2 percent) only the 7th has to do with healthcare, or rather the cost of healthcare.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

deleted_user wrote:Nice to see Spanky back :smile:
thx
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

you are ignoring the treatment of heart disease. Heart disease is manageable with medication. Our problem is people don't manage it, which the links you posted show. Why don't people manage it? Well, some people are just non-compliant which of course healthcare will not help them, but the majority I would guess can't afford the treatment.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

deleted_user wrote:Nice to see Spanky back :smile:
500 pages before Super Tuesday?
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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ez
mad cuz bad
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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Post by deleted_user »

This thread is sux.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by evilcheadar »

Healthcare is like a metallica music video
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by gibson »

n0el wrote:you are ignoring the treatment of heart disease. Heart disease is manageable with medication. Our problem is people don't manage it, which the links you posted show. Why don't people manage it? Well, some people are just non-compliant which of course healthcare will not help them, but the majority I would guess can't afford the treatment.
Certainly possible,I would imagine it has to do with obesity as well, not much you can do when someone dies of a heart attack before they can even be gotten to the hospital. I guess I think that the disbalance in wealth distribution is a larger issue than expensive healthcare, although lowering the cost of healthcare is certainly one way to combat it.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

.hnnn
'
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

Bernie Sanders is going to win.
And he is going to be your next president,
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

Deal with it, and be happyĀØ
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

warren, clob. pete is just going down
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

next Sanders is going to win em all ;)
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