US Politics Megathread

[gibson]

The last time I voted was in 4th grade for class president and I hope to die that way!

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[fightinfrenchman]

You should know I believe that voting is irrelevant

Very excited for Bernie's political revolution that doesn't involve voting

[gibson]

The last time I voted was in 4th grade for class president and I hope to die that way!

don't bitch about your country being shit i guess

pass

[RefluxSemantic]

The last time I voted was in 4th grade for class president and I hope to die that way!

don't bitch about your country being shit i guess

As if voting would change shit

[RefluxSemantic]

You should know I believe that voting is irrelevant

Very excited for Bernie's political revolution that doesn't involve voting

The world doesnt change if an individual votes or not, unless it is actually precisely the deciding vote.

[Cometk]

this attitude is why boomers keep getting away with passing and upholding shit laws

[gibson]

The last time I voted was in 4th grade for class president and I hope to die that way!

don't bitch about your country being shit i guess

As if voting would change shit

People have made that absurdly stupid statement to me many times, acting like they have the moral high ground to complain because they do something that makes them feel like they're making a difference, when in reality they arent doing shit.

[Cometk]

it's because attitudinal malaise towards voting isn't individual, it's societal and when everyone shares your attitude it means you will never get the change you want

[gibson]

it's because attitudinal malaise towards voting isn't individual, it's societal and when everyone shares your attitude it means you will never get the change you want

Correct, but that doesnt change the fact that I only have 1 vote and that 1 vote in and of itself is irrelevant and casting it isnt going to cause others to vote either.

[RefluxSemantic]

it's because attitudinal malaise towards voting isn't individual, it's societal and when everyone shares your attitude it means you will never get the change you want

Correct, but that doesnt change the fact that I only have 1 vote and that 1 vote in and of itself is irrelevant and casting it isnt going to cause others to vote either.

This.

Yes, if nobody thought like that then things would be better, but one person voting or not voting doesn't change anything. Even if Gibson convinces 10 others, it's very unlikely that it will matter. I personally vote for the symbolism, not because I think my vote really matters.

[deleted_user]

Appeal shouldn't be taken to mass effect, it should be to individual philosophy. Apathy just isn't good.

[evilcheadar]

If you want to support sanders you need to strategically not vote

[RefluxSemantic]

Appeal shouldn't be taken to mass effect, it should be to individual philosophy. Apathy just isn't good.

That's such a silly statement. So when Gibson actually votes, that means millions of other young people will vote too? When you wonder if your behaviour is influential, you should look at the impact of your behaviour only. You shouldn't consider if your behaviour is influential by going "what if everyone did what you do". You influence your own behaviour and only your own behaviour. What the others do is unrelated to what you do.

[deleted_user]

That is absolutely not what I was saying at all.

[RefluxSemantic]

Then I might have misunderstood. Hard to understand you sometimes when your posts are intentionally vague.

[deleted_user]

The appeal [to vote] shouldn't cite the gross effect of everyone [who doesn't, or does, vote], it should appeal to individuals' individual philosophy, their outlook on life, that is, to do something as opposed to doing nothing. There are overwhelming nihilist "truths" to our existence on a macro level of all humanity and our lonely planet. Refusing to act at all with good conscious because of this, aka apathy, does nothing to foster a life of happiness in the individual. Rather, a person should vote because they become an agent in and of themselves. They exercise a right which has of little to no value, much like their own existence, but they exercise it. It's celebration instead of defeat, because celebration amidst defeat is possible and preferred.

This, in the isolated case of one issue, is an example of the greater conundrum individuals and thus the populace must face as beliefs in higher powers wane.

[Vinyanyérë]

Seems like Callen's claiming that attempting to make a case for voting based on act-utilitarian ethics is a losing battle; voting will never be a utility-maximizing action. He's claiming instead that if you want to convince people to vote, you should appeal to a different ethical framework.

Personally I think he's drastically underestimating the utility of the "I voted" sticker.

[deleted_user]

Yes, I voted, not we.

[RefluxSemantic]

My name's Joe Biden, I'm a democratic candidate for the United States Senate. Look me over, if you like what you see, help out, if not, vote for the other Biden."

[n0el]

i honestly feel bad for the guy

[Goodspeed]

The appeal [to vote] shouldn't cite the gross effect of everyone [who doesn't, or does, vote], it should appeal to individuals' individual philosophy, their outlook on life, that is, to do something as opposed to doing nothing. There are overwhelming nihilist "truths" to our existence on a macro level of all humanity and our lonely planet. Refusing to act at all with good conscious because of this, aka apathy, does nothing to foster a life of happiness in the individual. Rather, a person should vote because they become an agent in and of themselves. They exercise a right which has of little to no value, much like their own existence, but they exercise it. It's celebration instead of defeat, because celebration amidst defeat is possible and preferred.

Ok, let's forget about whether voting makes a difference. Let's say it's just a person exercising a right for the sake of it. If that's rewarding to you, then by all means do it. For me personally, exercising the right to vote isn't rewarding. "Apathy", if you insist on calling it that, or lack thereof doesn't define a person's potential for happiness. I have many other things that make me happy, and prefer to spend my time on those things instead. And yes, my existence is equally useless. But it makes me happy. Voting doesn't.

[Cometk]

it almost feels inane to continue having discussions in this thread with a bunch of people who refuse to vote

[Cometk]

@Goodspeed say you lived in the US, would you vote in the democratic primary?

[Goodspeed]

No, voting there is way more of a hassle than here even