US Politics Megathread

[RefluxSemantic]

it almost feels inane to continue having discussions in this thread with a bunch of people who refuse to vote

I hope you're not assuming I don't vote.

[deleted_user]

The appeal [to vote] shouldn't cite the gross effect of everyone [who doesn't, or does, vote], it should appeal to individuals' individual philosophy, their outlook on life, that is, to do something as opposed to doing nothing. There are overwhelming nihilist "truths" to our existence on a macro level of all humanity and our lonely planet. Refusing to act at all with good conscious because of this, aka apathy, does nothing to foster a life of happiness in the individual. Rather, a person should vote because they become an agent in and of themselves. They exercise a right which has of little to no value, much like their own existence, but they exercise it. It's celebration instead of defeat, because celebration amidst defeat is possible and preferred.

Ok, let's forget about whether voting makes a difference. Let's say it's just a person exercising a right for the sake of it. If that's rewarding to you, then by all means do it. For me personally, exercising the right to vote isn't rewarding. "Apathy", if you insist on calling it that, or lack thereof doesn't define a person's potential for happiness. I have many other things that make me happy, and prefer to spend my time on those things instead. And yes, my existence is equally useless. But it makes me happy. Voting doesn't.

There is no convincing you, because you are happy, and the maths say you are right, and you put a lot of stock into maths. Voting is something a person can do, however insignificant, to repudiate the entrenched interests which mean to keep them down. It is strictly because people refuse to relinquish their autonomy to maths that elections exist. Voting is an exercise of spirit, not by any means the only act or measure of it, but still it is expression. For when you denigrate the act of voting for its uselessness, you contradict your same theory in your day to day life when caring of anything at all, when being happy. You become a bleak individual incapable of impact on any scale, and this is never not true, which is the triumph of voting, and any act of agency. So your case rests on maths, and it fails on maths.

Because when you denounce it on account of personal principle, you denounce it as a personal act. Please consider they why of things, and not only the what. It fails the categorical imperative.

[occamslightsaber]

No, voting there is way more of a hassle than here even

Why is that?

[Vinyanyérë]

The appeal [to vote] shouldn't cite the gross effect of everyone [who doesn't, or does, vote], it should appeal to individuals' individual philosophy, their outlook on life, that is, to do something as opposed to doing nothing. There are overwhelming nihilist "truths" to our existence on a macro level of all humanity and our lonely planet. Refusing to act at all with good conscious because of this, aka apathy, does nothing to foster a life of happiness in the individual. Rather, a person should vote because they become an agent in and of themselves. They exercise a right which has of little to no value, much like their own existence, but they exercise it. It's celebration instead of defeat, because celebration amidst defeat is possible and preferred.

Ok, let's forget about whether voting makes a difference. Let's say it's just a person exercising a right for the sake of it. If that's rewarding to you, then by all means do it. For me personally, exercising the right to vote isn't rewarding. "Apathy", if you insist on calling it that, or lack thereof doesn't define a person's potential for happiness. I have many other things that make me happy, and prefer to spend my time on those things instead. And yes, my existence is equally useless. But it makes me happy. Voting doesn't.

Vote out of a sense of civic duty. Not necessarily a sense of duty to your country, but to democracy itself. You love democracy, don't you?

[Cometk]

if you would refuse to vote i see no reason to listen to you try to influence my vote

[occamslightsaber]

The appeal [to vote] shouldn't cite the gross effect of everyone [who doesn't, or does, vote], it should appeal to individuals' individual philosophy, their outlook on life, that is, to do something as opposed to doing nothing. There are overwhelming nihilist "truths" to our existence on a macro level of all humanity and our lonely planet. Refusing to act at all with good conscious because of this, aka apathy, does nothing to foster a life of happiness in the individual. Rather, a person should vote because they become an agent in and of themselves. They exercise a right which has of little to no value, much like their own existence, but they exercise it. It's celebration instead of defeat, because celebration amidst defeat is possible and preferred.

Ok, let's forget about whether voting makes a difference. Let's say it's just a person exercising a right for the sake of it. If that's rewarding to you, then by all means do it. For me personally, exercising the right to vote isn't rewarding. "Apathy", if you insist on calling it that, or lack thereof doesn't define a person's potential for happiness. I have many other things that make me happy, and prefer to spend my time on those things instead. And yes, my existence is equally useless. But it makes me happy. Voting doesn't.

Vote out of a sense of civic duty. Not necessarily a sense of duty to your country, but to democracy itself. You love democracy, don't you?

Good point. Everyone loves democracy, even Sith Lords.

[deleted_user]

The prequels could've been good political commentary but they focused on the boring parts and not how one individual just superseded the galactic senate.

[occamslightsaber]

The prequels could've been good political commentary but they focused on the boring parts and not how one individual just superseded the galactic senate.

The prequels have the best meme potential though, no contest.

[deleted_user]

Good point. Lukas is ahead of times, as usual.

[fightinfrenchman]

I wish I had the willpower to not watch the debate tonight.

[gibson]

if you would refuse to vote i see no reason to listen to you try to influence my vote

dumb take

[fightinfrenchman]

if you would refuse to vote i see no reason to listen to you try to influence my vote

dumb take

It's actually good, people who don't vote really shouldn't be listened to. But unfortunately I'm cursed to read every single post in the Off topic section of ESOC so I'll read them regardless.

[Cometk]

if you would refuse to vote i see no reason to listen to you try to influence my vote

dumb take

if you have the energy to follow and post about the democratic primary for months, and have a candidate who you strongly advocate for, but you can't take 20 minutes out of your day to vote, yeah i'm not listening to you. that would be farcical

[RefluxSemantic]

What part don't you understand. A singular vote does not make any difference. Whether Gibson votes or not, the result will be the same.

[Cometk]

What part don't you understand. A singular vote does not make any difference. Whether Gibson votes or not, the result will be the same.

then why does it matter if i don't listen to him?

[fightinfrenchman]

What part don't you understand. A singular vote does not make any difference. Whether Gibson votes or not, the result will be the same.

Why do you think Bernie will cause a surge in the youth vote then?

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[n0el]

Foe listing all non voters. Guess it’s ear and comet and incog from now on

[RefluxSemantic]

Foe listing all non voters. Guess it’s ear and comet and incog from now on

I've voted for every election there has been in the Netherlands, except for one where I fundamentally disagreed with the fact that there was an election (or rather referendum) about it.

[RefluxSemantic]

What part don't you understand. A singular vote does not make any difference. Whether Gibson votes or not, the result will be the same.

mathematically, this is false though

It's true by very good approximation. Especially considering where Gibson lives.

[gibson]

What part don't you understand. A singular vote does not make any difference. Whether Gibson votes or not, the result will be the same.

then why does it matter if i don't listen to him?

Well it doesnt matter if you listen to anybody, but its foolish to randomly choose one demographic not to listen to

[fightinfrenchman]

Foe listing all non voters. Guess it’s ear and comet and incog from now on

The way the forums were meant to be

[RefluxSemantic]

The fact of the matter is that when you look at it logically, the chance that your vote will change the outcome of an election is extremely small. Your votes in practice have never mattered and will probably never matter. The reason you vote is out of principle or because you enjoy doing so. Saying that people who don't vote shouldn't have an opinion is just devoid of logic. Tell them they can't have an opinion when an election is won or lost by one vote, because then they could have made the difference, but otherwise their vote wasn't influential at all. And besides that, you should always listen to one's opinion. Every once in a while the dumbest of people say something reasonable.

[RefluxSemantic]

What part don't you understand. A singular vote does not make any difference. Whether Gibson votes or not, the result will be the same.

Why do you think Bernie will cause a surge in the youth vote then?

People are either stupid (and think their vote matters) so they vote for Bernie because they like him or they are inspired by Bernie (or any other candidate for that matter), realize their vote doesn't matter but they want to be part of what's going on and so they vote because it feels good. There are also people that vote because they think it's their duty to vote, but I think the youth doesn't really belong to this category.

[fightinfrenchman]

There have been a bunch of elections where a single vote made the difference.