US Politics Megathread

[spanky4ever]

I do remember though, back in 9/11, I was attending a course with American "teachers". They were all highly educated, mostly PhDs. Then this happened, and their wives, who were also in Norway, came rushing to the classrooms. The wives and the "teachers" had this weird message "Kill them all" and they were referring to the Arabs as a whole.
Was pretty disturbing to the audience; ordinary Norwegians.

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[fightinfrenchman]

I think equating the effects of gun ownership and monster truck shows is a little silly

[spanky4ever]

One note here, One of the last thing former attorney general Jeff Session did before leaving the justice department, was signing a memo that ended the department oversight over police departments. So no more federal oversight of the police.

[fightinfrenchman]

If you were one of the people who said that Biden's "you ain't black" "gaffe" would hurt him, please turn in your "my opinions aren't insanely dumb" card now

[Dolan]

@spanky4ever
Police are and were mostly under the authority of local powers in the USA, afaik. So mayors, governors, local council too maybe.
Except for the DC where there's a special situation, since the city is under the authority of congress and a mayor with a minor role.

[RefluxSemantic]

Show hidden quotes

do u believe that trump caused or at least escalated police brutality with what he said in this video or do u deem it as racist?

Are you trying to imply that in that video, Trump doesn't explicitly endorse police brutality?

oh please he is talking his mind on how to deal with criminals in the context of gang violence. such made up outrage...

He says that after someone is restrained, cops should try to physically hurt them

he doesn't

He does

"please don't be too nice; like if u put somebody in the car and u protecting their head, u can put the hand away" = He says that after someone is restrained, cops should try to physically hurt them

agree too disagree

He's saying to not protect somebody's head, because he wants them to hit their head, because he wants the police to hurt them.

Stop shaping the narrative to what you want it to be. This doesn't even imply he wants the police to hurt them in the slightest. At best this implies he thinks the police doesn't have the obligation to protect people from being hurt in the process of an arrest.

You're really no better than Trump supporters. You're just the same, you ignore reality and form the narrative that you like best. This is how you got people like Trump in the first place, so maybe it's a good time to stop doing this bullshit.

[duckzilla]

I think I know the only possible solution for all the problems discussed here:
We the people, i.e. a Norwegian, a French, a Romanian, a Dutch, and a German, will draft a new constitution for the US. They simply don't get it and can't solve their problems alone, so let daddy Europe help out.

[RefluxSemantic]

That would unironically make the US a far better place

[Snuden]

@Snuden Sorry I forgot to tell you, you missed page 666

I felt it

[n0el]

There’s a real chance that Lindsey Graham aka Lady G might lose. Unreal

I'm still skeptical, being tied 42-42 in a deeply red state isn't really all that amazing

I’d imagine if there’s a lot of headlines about his being gay, he will lose a lot of his base.

[fightinfrenchman]

Show hidden quotes

do u believe that trump caused or at least escalated police brutality with what he said in this video or do u deem it as racist?

Are you trying to imply that in that video, Trump doesn't explicitly endorse police brutality?

oh please he is talking his mind on how to deal with criminals in the context of gang violence. such made up outrage...

He says that after someone is restrained, cops should try to physically hurt them

he doesn't

He does

"please don't be too nice; like if u put somebody in the car and u protecting their head, u can put the hand away" = He says that after someone is restrained, cops should try to physically hurt them

agree too disagree

He's saying to not protect somebody's head, because he wants them to hit their head, because he wants the police to hurt them.

Stop shaping the narrative to what you want it to be. This doesn't even imply he wants the police to hurt them in the slightest. At best this implies he thinks the police doesn't have the obligation to protect people from being hurt in the process of an arrest.

You're really no better than Trump supporters. You're just the same, you ignore reality and form the narrative that you like best. This is how you got people like Trump in the first place, so maybe it's a good time to stop doing this bullshit.

What are you talking about "shaping the narrative" I'm literally taking what he said at face value

What happened to you recently? It's legitimately bizarre

[n0el]

Show hidden quotes

do u believe that trump caused or at least escalated police brutality with what he said in this video or do u deem it as racist?

Are you trying to imply that in that video, Trump doesn't explicitly endorse police brutality?

oh please he is talking his mind on how to deal with criminals in the context of gang violence. such made up outrage...

He says that after someone is restrained, cops should try to physically hurt them

he doesn't

He does

"please don't be too nice; like if u put somebody in the car and u protecting their head, u can put the hand away" = He says that after someone is restrained, cops should try to physically hurt them

agree too disagree

He's saying to not protect somebody's head, because he wants them to hit their head, because he wants the police to hurt them.

Stop shaping the narrative to what you want it to be. This doesn't even imply he wants the police to hurt them in the slightest. At best this implies he thinks the police doesn't have the obligation to protect people from being hurt in the process of an arrest.

You're really no better than Trump supporters. You're just the same, you ignore reality and form the narrative that you like best. This is how you got people like Trump in the first place, so maybe it's a good time to stop doing this bullshit.

This is really what he's saying. I'm not sure how you aren't understanding this.

[RefluxSemantic]

How does what Trump said mean he wants the police to hurt them? What he's actually saying is that they shouldn't be too nice to people they're arresting. The 'hit their head' stuff is about being nice and telling those that are arrested to watch their head before getting in the car. That's what the message is at face value. At least that's what it looks like he's saying in full context. It's Trump so the actual things he's saying tend to be somewhat cryptic.

And really nothing happened to me. I care for truth more than anything, and after that I care for economic reforms. When people like you come in, I get annoyed. Doesn't matter if you support Trump or Biden or Sanders or some rock, I get annoyed because people like you consistently fail to think objectively. You're just as much part of the problem as Trump supporters are, because the problem is that people stopped believing in the truth.

[oats13]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... ughing-up/

[fightinfrenchman]

@RefluxSemantic Why do you think some police officers put their hand over the person's head when putting them into a police car.

[duckzilla]

How does what Trump said mean he wants the police to hurt them? What he's actually saying is that they shouldn't be too nice to people they're arresting. The 'hit their head' stuff is about being nice and telling those that are arrested to watch their head before getting in the car. That's what the message is at face value. At least that's what it looks like he's saying in full context. It's Trump so the actual things he's saying tend to be somewhat cryptic.

This is not just about human decency.

The moment when a person is arrested by a government agency, especially when cuffed or physically/medically constrained, this government agency bears, at least partial, responsibility for the person's well-being. The corresponding police officer has the obligation to care and prevent any avoidable harm.

[RefluxSemantic]

How does what Trump said mean he wants the police to hurt them? What he's actually saying is that they shouldn't be too nice to people they're arresting. The 'hit their head' stuff is about being nice and telling those that are arrested to watch their head before getting in the car. That's what the message is at face value. At least that's what it looks like he's saying in full context. It's Trump so the actual things he's saying tend to be somewhat cryptic.

This is not just about human decency.

The moment when a person is arrested by a government agency, especially when cuffed or physically/medically constrained, this government agency bears, at least partial, responsibility for the person's well-being. The corresponding police officer has the obligation to care and prevent any avoidable harm.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. What I strongly disagree with is that Trump said police officers should hurt people. Claiming that he did say that is stupid and disingenuous. It's the same deceit that the Trump administration uses.

[Dolan]

It's partisan logic: our enemy implies a lot more evil things than what he explicitly says.
It's like Repubs accusing Dems they want to establish a Venezuela-style communist state in the US, just because they want to tax the rich more.

[fightinfrenchman]

It's partisan logic: our enemy implies a lot more evil things than what he explicitly says.
It's like Repubs accusing Dems they want to establish a Venezuela-style communist state in the US, just because they want to tax the rich more.

Trump also wanted to execute 5 people who didn't do anything

[duckzilla]

How does what Trump said mean he wants the police to hurt them? What he's actually saying is that they shouldn't be too nice to people they're arresting. The 'hit their head' stuff is about being nice and telling those that are arrested to watch their head before getting in the car. That's what the message is at face value. At least that's what it looks like he's saying in full context. It's Trump so the actual things he's saying tend to be somewhat cryptic.

This is not just about human decency.

The moment when a person is arrested by a government agency, especially when cuffed or physically/medically constrained, this government agency bears, at least partial, responsibility for the person's well-being. The corresponding police officer has the obligation to care and prevent any avoidable harm.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. What I strongly disagree with is that Trump said police officers should hurt people. Claiming that he did say that is stupid and disingenuous. It's the same deceit that the Trump administration uses.

The point is that the 'hit their head' stuff is not about 'being nice', but a question of the relationship between government and people - it is about civic rights.

By interpreting the prevention of avoidable harm as being 'too nice', Trump shows that he either doesn't understand this relationship or doesn't care about it. Anyway, suggesting not to be 'too nice' is at least condoning avoidable harm in the context of arrests, which is, in my opinion, a violation of civic rights. By phrasing his suggestion the way he did, it is entirely clear that he wants alleged culprits to be treated heedlessly. Thus, he wants cops to infringe civic rights.

[Dolan]

@duckzilla
That stuff sounds nice in theory, but when you're out on the field dealing with crime, you're not gonna be able to act like a thoughtful Gandhi in uniform, that handles criminals with gloves.

Imagine it's guys like these who just beat you up, raped your gf, then took your valuables, leaving you in a pool of blood:



And you're arguing the police should handle them with great care, like they're made of precious porcelain. Police officers know that if you're too nice with hardened criminals, they take you for a wimp and will feel more emboldened to escape or attack you. They know that criminals only have respect for toughness. And dealing with crime everyday can come close to urban warfare, a suspect could pull out a gun any moment you're not paying attention, then you're gone.

[oats13]

The transparent troglodyte was arguing a specific claim, and the facts don't match that so he moves on to the next distraction etc.

[RefluxSemantic]

Show hidden quotes

How does what Trump said mean he wants the police to hurt them? What he's actually saying is that they shouldn't be too nice to people they're arresting. The 'hit their head' stuff is about being nice and telling those that are arrested to watch their head before getting in the car. That's what the message is at face value. At least that's what it looks like he's saying in full context. It's Trump so the actual things he's saying tend to be somewhat cryptic.

This is not just about human decency.

The moment when a person is arrested by a government agency, especially when cuffed or physically/medically constrained, this government agency bears, at least partial, responsibility for the person's well-being. The corresponding police officer has the obligation to care and prevent any avoidable harm.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. What I strongly disagree with is that Trump said police officers should hurt people. Claiming that he did say that is stupid and disingenuous. It's the same deceit that the Trump administration uses.

The point is that the 'hit their head' stuff is not about 'being nice', but a question of the relationship between government and people - it is about civic rights.

By interpreting the prevention of avoidable harm as being 'too nice', Trump shows that he either doesn't understand this relationship or doesn't care about it. Anyway, suggesting not to be 'too nice' is at least condoning avoidable harm in the context of arrests, which is, in my opinion, a violation of civic rights. By phrasing his suggestion the way he did, it is entirely clear that he wants alleged culprits to be treated heedlessly. Thus, he wants cops to infringe civic rights.

Fightinfrenchman specifically said that he 'took what trump said at face value', which according to him means that trump 'wants the police to hurt them'. Even your analysis of his statement - at which point we're clearly not taking what Trump said at face value anymore - still doesn't mean that Trump wants the police to hurt them.

Maybe @the ear can prove he's not the same as all these Trump supporters by retracting this part of his statement.

[princeofcarthage]

I got that, I want to understand is why you won't feel safe if the army which is sworn to protect anything American, which is paid by you were to show up at your doorstep for your own protection?

Who do they protect when everyone is American? We pay police to protect us, they protect one interest and not everyone. Don't you see that the military is just a worse version of that? At least police are responsible to a local level, whereas the military is not.

The innocents. Looters and rioters are criminals who deserve punishment. They would be protecting innocent life and public property from unnecessary damage caused by few opportunistic individuals/groups, not to mention they are ruining the protests because of it. If you realize/understand that protests right now are doing more harm than the good, that things are already in motion in congress for a better system, and abide by the rules in place such as curfew, not to mention the potential unprecedented spread of C-19 due to protests, you have nothing to fear about. It is only the intention to cross the boundaries and rules of the society in place to protect the society from destroying itself, should you fear the protectors of the society. Military isn't something different, it is the part of the same society you live in, of the same people you are surrounded with.