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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

knusch wrote:
WickedCossack wrote: Well the argument is that universal health care should be a right and not a privilege. Ergo in countries that have a health system reflecting this then it is a right and not a privilege.
i'm not aware of a single country that has a right to health care established. to me this is just another feel good slogan rather than actual policy.
Article 35 Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. Austria is a member state of the EU and therefore party of this treaty.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 12012P/TXT
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Re: 2020 US Elections

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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by spanky4ever »

knusch wrote:
WickedCossack wrote: Well the argument is that universal health care should be a right and not a privilege. Ergo in countries that have a health system reflecting this then it is a right and not a privilege.
i'm not aware of a single country that has a right to health care established. to me this is just another feel good slogan rather than actual policy.
Lots of countries have that: :roll:
More than half of the world's countries have some degree of a guaranteed, specific right to public health and medical care for their citizens written into their national constitutions. The United States is one of 86 countries whose constitutions do not guarantee their citizens any kind of health protection. That's the finding of a new study that examines the level and scope of constitutional protection of specific rights to public health and medical care.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 104927.htm
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by vardar »

The US healthcare system really isn’t fully private. It’s caught in the middle, with politicians consistently adding and taking parts away. I don’t have time for a long write-up but I enjoyed reading wardy and Chris’ posts.

You have a private sector that pays millions on millions for lobbying in Washington. What’s the word for it..ermm, crony capitalism?
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by knusch »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
knusch wrote:
WickedCossack wrote: Well the argument is that universal health care should be a right and not a privilege. Ergo in countries that have a health system reflecting this then it is a right and not a privilege.
i'm not aware of a single country that has a right to health care established. to me this is just another feel good slogan rather than actual policy.
Article 35 Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. Austria is a member state of the EU and therefore party of this treaty.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 12012P/TXT
access ofc, is that rly your argument?
as if thats the problem in the us that insurance companies simply deny giving ppl insurance no matter how much money u throw at them...
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by knusch »

iwillspankyou wrote:
knusch wrote:
WickedCossack wrote: Well the argument is that universal health care should be a right and not a privilege. Ergo in countries that have a health system reflecting this then it is a right and not a privilege.
i'm not aware of a single country that has a right to health care established. to me this is just another feel good slogan rather than actual policy.
Lots of countries have that: :roll:
obvsly european countries organize their healt care system quite different than the us. tho one part is quite similar in that usually it is connected to your employer/payroll. ofc it is vastly different if optional or a requirement and if the funds go to private insurance or one public one.

maybe this is a misunderstanding or some lack of understanding what and how we view human rights. coz noone here is insured by default and u certainly can't sue the state or anyone else that u have been denied your human right to have insurance.
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by WickedCossack »

knusch wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Lots of countries have that: :roll:
obvsly european countries organize their healt care system quite different than the us. tho one part is quite similar in that usually it is connected to your employer/payroll. ofc it is vastly different if optional or a requirement and if the funds go to private insurance or one public one.

maybe this is a misunderstanding or some lack of understanding what and how we view human rights. coz noone here is insured by default and u certainly can't sue the state or anyone else that u have been denied your human right to have insurance.
Oh that's interesting, it seems Austria has a state health insurance fund that you need to pay state health insurance to access? If I'm understanding that right then it's slightly different to the UK as the only health insurance we have is private (of which about 10% of the population pays.) The only requirement to access free healthcare from the NHS is to be a resident of the UK.

It seems like 99% of people pay the state insurance in Austria, is it fixed for everyone or do people with higher incomes pay more?
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by knusch »

WickedCossack wrote:
knusch wrote:
Show hidden quotes
obvsly european countries organize their healt care system quite different than the us. tho one part is quite similar in that usually it is connected to your employer/payroll. ofc it is vastly different if optional or a requirement and if the funds go to private insurance or one public one.

maybe this is a misunderstanding or some lack of understanding what and how we view human rights. coz noone here is insured by default and u certainly can't sue the state or anyone else that u have been denied your human right to have insurance.
Oh that's interesting, it seems Austria has a state health insurance fund that you need to pay state health insurance to access? If I'm understanding that right then it's slightly different to the UK as the only health insurance we have is private (of which about 10% of the population pays.) The only requirement to access free healthcare from the NHS is to be a resident of the UK.

It seems like 99% of people pay the state insurance in Austria, is it fixed for everyone or do people with higher incomes pay more?
it increases with income and is capped at some point. low income lvls u basically simply pay health care and no or very little in income tax.
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Re: 2020 US Elections

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Post by WickedCossack »

chris1089 wrote: Again, you are kind of missing the point. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I don't accept the premise that government provided education or healthcare is a valid reason to take people's money, or the premise that it is efficient. I think that having free markets (including healthcare and education) is the best way to bring people out of poverty. Tbh that's probably why I'm a capitalist generally (because it helps the poorest.)
I don't think pure capitalism is the best economic/political system for the healthcare industry. It has it's benefits but the industry has some unique features that don't function well with the system e.g a couple:
  • Due to start up barriers the pharmaceutical sector essentially functions as a monopoly under capitalism. As their primary goal is profitability they can charge whatever prices they want it's not regulated, and they do. Medicince is often marked up 1000% and more in America (Insulin is a good example which is about ~1000% atm.) The cost of course is passed directly to the consumer (if they can even afford it.) I think even a proponent of private health care can agree this needs to be regulated?
  • Hospitals as profit seeking organsiations independent of insurance options. The primary goal of private healthcare is to make profit and not to provide health care, and while these two should allign to some extent, the fact that you can't always choose your hospital (limited by location, urgency of health etc) and lack of transparency of the product (costs) severly limits the driving force of capitalism which is consumer choice. Hence this system can easily facilitate over-charging and under-servicing without the normal drawbacks.
I think it's also worth acknowledging that under an ideal (functioning) universal healthcare system a sector for private healthcare still exists, opponents of universal basic health care don't recognise this enough. It should work quite well in harmony with state care as the main incentive to use (and consequent avenue for profit) can only be for quality of service.
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by spanky4ever »

@knush
maybe this is a misunderstanding or some lack of understanding what and how we view human rights. coz noone here is insured by default and u certainly can't sue the state or anyone else that u have been denied your human right to have insurance.
I am not sure if you are bending words here?
In my country at least, you can sue the state if you do not get proper healthcare. And yeah, it is a basic right we have. I am not familiar with your system, and maybe yours are way worse than the one Scandicanivan countries have?
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by knusch »

iwillspankyou wrote:@knush
maybe this is a misunderstanding or some lack of understanding what and how we view human rights. coz noone here is insured by default and u certainly can't sue the state or anyone else that u have been denied your human right to have insurance.
I am not sure if you are bending words here?
In my country at least, you can sue the state if you do not get proper healthcare. And yeah, it is a basic right we have. I am not familiar with your system, and maybe yours are way worse than the one Scandicanivan countries have?
i'd assume it funded out of general tax revenue. my question would be, if i move to norway i receive health insurance per default?

i'd keep it lowkey with judgement like worse or better in case one rly doesn't know anything about it...
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by Snuden »

knusch wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:@knush
maybe this is a misunderstanding or some lack of understanding what and how we view human rights. coz noone here is insured by default and u certainly can't sue the state or anyone else that u have been denied your human right to have insurance.
I am not sure if you are bending words here?
In my country at least, you can sue the state if you do not get proper healthcare. And yeah, it is a basic right we have. I am not familiar with your system, and maybe yours are way worse than the one Scandicanivan countries have?
i'd assume it funded out of general tax revenue. my question would be, if i move to norway i receive health insurance per default?

i'd keep it lowkey with judgement like worse or better in case one rly doesn't know anything about it...
Yes you would, and the same in Denmark.
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by vardar »

What about an extra tax on fast food that goes directly into healthcare, particular diabetes or other related medical issues?
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by knusch »

Snuden wrote:
knusch wrote:
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i'd assume it funded out of general tax revenue. my question would be, if i move to norway i receive health insurance per default?

i'd keep it lowkey with judgement like worse or better in case one rly doesn't know anything about it...
Yes you would, and the same in Denmark.
i don't think we have the same defintion what free or basic human right means.
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by gibson »

Would have voted for Hillary if Obama hadn’t bailed out the big banks.

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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by vardar »

Can’t wait to vote for Kanye 2024
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by Snuden »

knusch wrote:
Snuden wrote:
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Yes you would, and the same in Denmark.
i don't think we have the same defintion what free or basic human right means.
We probably do, I mentioned Denmark but you posted something about Spain.
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by knusch »

Snuden wrote:
knusch wrote:
Show hidden quotes
i don't think we have the same defintion what free or basic human right means.
We probably do, I mentioned Denmark but you posted something about Spain.
u r right, my bad - that flag of yours caught my attention xD
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by Snuden »

I’m a resident in Spain, pay my taxes and receive free healthcare here as well :)
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by knusch »

Snuden wrote:I’m a resident in Spain, pay my taxes and receive free healthcare here as well :)
right, coz u pay taxes/ social security contributions
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by Snuden »

knusch wrote:
Snuden wrote:I’m a resident in Spain, pay my taxes and receive free healthcare here as well :)
right, coz u pay taxes/ social security contributions
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Wondering what Bernie's campaign would be doing right now if he had won the nomination

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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by fightinfrenchman »

@vardar As someone who leans Republican, can you explain what you think the implications of this are to me?

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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by vardar »

Idk what this is getting at. Maybe I’m stupid
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Re: 2020 US Elections

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Tom Cotton is racist
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