US Politics Megathread

[Rohbrot]

:

America is the besht

Why no USA flag then m8?

[Riotcoke]

:

America is the besht

Why no USA flag then m8?

He's from Tuvalu.

[Amsel_]

I'm not sure what to make of that debate. I want to say that Biden won because he had the most to lose going into the debate, and he managed to hold the ship steady. On the other hand, Trump has a remarkable ability to end up winning whenever things descend into frustrating to watch mudflinging contests that people just want to ignore.

Tfw you traded nearly two hours of your life to watch this mess

[TNT333]

Amazing debate guys, goes to show the 2 candidates for the country cant even respect basic debate laws xD. Tho I got to say Biden did hold his ground well

[oats13]

Show hidden quotes

It's interesting that you say you've read several articles about this and don't even know who he owes the debt to. Deutsche bank, mostly.

If Trump really doesn't have the money to cover his debts and the banks decide that his core business isn't viable and to slowly call in those debts or to downsize them then that is his problem.

The banks could also decide to pressure him into making decisions in politics that benefit them. It's ammo for lobbyists.

I asked the question rhetorically, It is well known that Deutsche Bank still lent him massive amounts even after he sued them, presumably their analysts thought it worthwhile.

Whether it would be ammo for lobbyists or not is moot, the basic reality is no different than it was four years ago and the rules aren't going to change in the next two months.

It is entirely the business of America if it wants to change them in the future and of no concern to Trump.

I'd also mention that the scale of money here is peanuts compared to say..... Haliburton etc.

Why is it moot that the president's personal finance situation might affect policy decisions? Obviously you don't want that. Who's to say, for example, that he isn't downplaying the virus to protect his profit margins, considering a lot of his assets are in the hospitality sector, with this (for him quite large) debt looming?

Trump seems to be in a precarious situation financially, and since he's only in this for himself I can see why people are worried, or even call it a national security threat.

Moot also means might, but all of these considerations apply to all sides in all contexts, does money affect politics? yes, on all sides.

In fact it works both ways with Presidents having outside interests as in your example, Trump does indeed employ a lot of people in the hospitality industry which might also be an extra spur for him to do everything he can to help with covid.

I'm not saying it isn't a good idea to have rules over this kind of thing, just that this election will be run under the current rules and that none of this story will really amount to much other than a few blows landed in the election campaign.

Also- watched the debate, which provided one more reason for something we do agree on- that the Dems should have gone for Pete.

[fightinfrenchman]

In fact it works both ways with Presidents having outside interests as in your example, Trump does indeed employ a lot of people in the hospitality industry which might also be an extra spur for him to do everything he can to help with covid.

I know it's accepted that he just lies about everything but he said he was gonna put his businesses in a blind trust and not have any control over them precisely to avoid things like this

[KoenigRother]

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/nac ... 30838.html

my news outlet changed its mind xd ("Trump has displayed more energy")

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/bli ... 28438.html

this is the one i originally refered to...

pluralism?

[oats13]

In fact it works both ways with Presidents having outside interests as in your example, Trump does indeed employ a lot of people in the hospitality industry which might also be an extra spur for him to do everything he can to help with covid.

I know it's accepted that he just lies about everything but he said he was gonna put his businesses in a blind trust and not have any control over them precisely to avoid things like this

I really do not know the rules over that or to what extent that has happened, I was under the impression that it was conditional for him to do so.

[KoenigRother]

My German news outlet concluded that no one won the debate, but that the American people lost it.

last I checked the american economy was 5x the size of germany, who's the loser now?

i dont understand it

[Dolan]

My impression was that Trump dominated the debate, I'm gonna explain why.
When the debate started, they were both awful. They were very energetic and quarrelsome, but the quality of arguments was pretty low: a lot of noise, but not much to take away from it. Once the debate progressed, some of the answers improved a bit, they were more relevant to the question, but the debate also got a lot more disorderly, the host failed to rein them in. And Trump was the biggest offender, at some points in the debate he was basically bullying Biden and Biden just mumbled some reaction but didn't respond in kind. (For example, Trump attacked Biden's family a lot, but Biden didn't respond by doing the same with Trump's family.)

That's the interesting part that I couldn't predict, going in the debate. It was impressive how feisty both candidates were at the start, but in the later part of the debate, Biden seemed to have lost steam, almost like he got tired. By contrast, Trump almost seemed like he was getting more and more fired up. I couldn't believe it, I was telling myself: wtf does this boomer eat? Where does he get that level of combativeness at 74 years of age? Considering how obese he is and how he's not exactly a paragon of healthy living, it's almost mind-boggling he manages to be tireless in this kind of high-level debates, even though he doesn't have Biden's 40-something years of experience in holding speeches in the congress. It's something that you shouldn't ignore, imo, because Trump still is someone without any previous experience in politics before taking this job. Maybe his experience in being a TV show host had some say in how he manages to not get tired in live debates. Or maybe it's the difference between someone who lived a comfy, cushioned millionaire life, that was much less stressful than Biden's Washington career.

If you're a Trump's supporter, you're probably going to see the debate as a moderate win for him, which might actually be true in terms of who dominated the exchanges. If you're a Biden supporter, you're going to see this debate as a win for him because he didn't drop any blooper, there's no major mistake he made that would make him look like a walking disaster, as some people expected. He held his own for most of the debate and largely checked all the boxes that his campaign wanted him to check (economy, corona, race, police). At some point, he even managed to be funny, calling Trump a clown.

The question is, ofc, if this debate is going to move any undecided voters to any significant extent. Because their loyal supporters are unlikely to move to the other side, based on a TV debate performance. What should be concerning for Biden is whether he has the stamina to face Trump in long debates, because I don't know what they're feeding that boomer, maybe they're giving him ginseng or some magical potions, but he didn't seem to get tired at all even after 1 hour and a half of constant verbal attack on Biden.

[oats13]

My impression was that Trump dominated the debate, I'm gonna explain why.
When the debate started, they were both awful. They were very energetic and quarrelsome, but the quality of arguments was pretty low: a lot of noise, but not much to take away from it. Once the debate progressed, some of the answers improved a bit, they were more relevant to the question, but the debate also got a lot more disorderly, the host failed to rein them in. And Trump was the biggest offender, at some points in the debate he was basically bullying Biden and Biden just mumbled some reaction but didn't respond in kind. (For example, Trump attacked Biden's family a lot, but Biden didn't respond by doing the same with Trump's family.)

That's the interesting part that I couldn't predict, going in the debate. It was impressive how feisty both candidates were at the start, but in the later part of the debate, Biden seemed to have lost steam, almost like he got tired. By contrast, Trump almost seemed like he was getting more and more fired up. I couldn't believe it, I was telling myself: wtf does this boomer eat? Where does he get that level of combativeness at 74 years of age? Considering how obese he is and how he's not exactly a paragon of healthy living, it's almost mind-boggling he manages to be tireless in this kind of high-level debates, even though he doesn't have Biden's 40-something years of experience in holding speeches in the congress. It's something that you shouldn't ignore, imo, because Trump still is someone without any previous experience in politics before taking this job. Maybe his experience in being a TV show host had some say in how he manages to not get tired in live debates. Or maybe it's the difference between someone who lived a comfy, cushioned millionaire life, that was much less stressful than Biden's Washington career.

If you're a Trump's supporter, you're probably going to see the debate as a moderate win for him, which might actually be true in terms of who dominated the exchanges. If you're a Biden supporter, you're going to see this debate as a win for him because he didn't drop any blooper, there's no major mistake he made that would make him look like a walking disaster, as some people expected. He held his own for most of the debate and largely checked all the boxes that his campaign wanted him to check (economy, corona, race, police). At some point, he even managed to be funny, calling Trump a clown.

The question is, ofc, if this debate is going to move any undecided voters to any significant extent. Because their loyal supporters are unlikely to move to the other side, based on a TV debate performance. What should be concerning for Biden is whether he has the stamina to face Trump in long debates, because I don't know what they're feeding that boomer, maybe they're giving him ginseng or some magical potions, but he didn't seem to get tired at all even after 1 hour and a half of constant verbal attack on Biden.

[Horsemen]

My German news outlet concluded that no one won the debate, but that the American people lost it.

last I checked the american economy was 5x the size of germany, who's the loser now?

i dont understand it

[Horsemen]

Show hidden quotes

My German news outlet concluded that no one won the debate, but that the American people lost it.

last I checked the american economy was 5x the size of germany, who's the loser now?

i dont understand it

The 2 owned by Italy are too small to be considered aircraft carriers in the US btw

[Dolan]

Reuters has a very good characterisation of the debate:

Fractious presidential debate unlikely to move needle for Trump: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN26L0VM

"Down in the opinion polls with five weeks to go until the November election, U.S. President Donald Trump sought to use the first presidential debate to bully his way back into the race".

"If he is hoping to win over undecided voters, Kall said, Trump will need to outline a sunnier, more optimistic vision for the nation in the next two debates – a tall task for a politician who favors scorched-earth warfare".

Their interpretation is that Trump had this aggressive approach on the first debate because he's behind in polls so he needed to go on the offensive. But given how he didn't really score any major win during the debate, didn't make Biden lose his temper (tho he tried hard to rile him up), even if he dominated the debate by bullying Biden, it's not nearly enough to have any significant effect on the polls. This kind of "win" will only make your loyal supporters more confident but it won't pull any voters from the other camp or those who have not decided whom to support yet.

[Dolan]

@Horsemen The USA needs aicraft carriers because they're separated by two oceans from the rest of the world. When you're fighting in a conflict that is close to your region, those carriers matter less, you can launch fighter jets from your military bases. Other countries are simply not interested in projecting military power somewhere on the other side of the globe. Otherwise they would have built them too. China definitely has the money and Germany has both the money and the industry to pull it off.

You can't conquer another faraway territory only with aircraft. At some point you have to put boots on the ground. Aircraft can just disable the opponent to some extent, but not completely defeat it.

[Riotcoke]

I won £45 on betting, so in my eyes I won the debate.

[Riotcoke]

Show hidden quotes

My German news outlet concluded that no one won the debate, but that the American people lost it.

last I checked the american economy was 5x the size of germany, who's the loser now?

i dont understand it

The UK's stat is really depressing, 40 decomissioned and 0 running :(

[Jam]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjHtXunU4AA ... ame=medium

[Dolan]

@Riotcoke
It could be worse. Romania has bought some of the warships decommissioned by the UK:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_ ... and_(F221)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_London_(F95)

[Riotcoke]

@Riotcoke
It could be worse. Romania has bought some of the warships decommissioned by the UK:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_ ... and_(F221)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_London_(F95)

Yea that's kind of normal you guys didn't go from the biggest navy to a puny one though.

[007Salt]

No wonder Biden didn't have the normal amount of gaffes.

https://thehill.com/campaign-issues/518 ... wsource=cl

[Goodspeed]

My impression was that Trump dominated the debate, I'm gonna explain why.
When the debate started, they were both awful. They were very energetic and quarrelsome, but the quality of arguments was pretty low: a lot of noise, but not much to take away from it. Once the debate progressed, some of the answers improved a bit, they were more relevant to the question, but the debate also got a lot more disorderly, the host failed to rein them in. And Trump was the biggest offender, at some points in the debate he was basically bullying Biden and Biden just mumbled some reaction but didn't respond in kind. (For example, Trump attacked Biden's family a lot, but Biden didn't respond by doing the same with Trump's family.)

That's the interesting part that I couldn't predict, going in the debate. It was impressive how feisty both candidates were at the start, but in the later part of the debate, Biden seemed to have lost steam, almost like he got tired. By contrast, Trump almost seemed like he was getting more and more fired up. I couldn't believe it, I was telling myself: wtf does this boomer eat? Where does he get that level of combativeness at 74 years of age? Considering how obese he is and how he's not exactly a paragon of healthy living, it's almost mind-boggling he manages to be tireless in this kind of high-level debates, even though he doesn't have Biden's 40-something years of experience in holding speeches in the congress. It's something that you shouldn't ignore, imo, because Trump still is someone without any previous experience in politics before taking this job. Maybe his experience in being a TV show host had some say in how he manages to not get tired in live debates. Or maybe it's the difference between someone who lived a comfy, cushioned millionaire life, that was much less stressful than Biden's Washington career.

If you're a Trump's supporter, you're probably going to see the debate as a moderate win for him, which might actually be true in terms of who dominated the exchanges. If you're a Biden supporter, you're going to see this debate as a win for him because he didn't drop any blooper, there's no major mistake he made that would make him look like a walking disaster, as some people expected. He held his own for most of the debate and largely checked all the boxes that his campaign wanted him to check (economy, corona, race, police). At some point, he even managed to be funny, calling Trump a clown.

The question is, ofc, if this debate is going to move any undecided voters to any significant extent. Because their loyal supporters are unlikely to move to the other side, based on a TV debate performance. What should be concerning for Biden is whether he has the stamina to face Trump in long debates, because I don't know what they're feeding that boomer, maybe they're giving him ginseng or some magical potions, but he didn't seem to get tired at all even after 1 hour and a half of constant verbal attack on Biden.

You're predictably obsessed with this "Biden is a tired old man" narrative.
I haven't watched the debate yet, but it seems perfectly expected for Biden to be calmer than Trump considering his message is one about unity and a return to normal, not a populistic one. Also, maybe he figured he needed to rise above the bickering to seem more presidential.

[Dolan]

@Goodspeed I watched the debate live and, at times, Biden did appear like a tired old man, which is normal considering his age.
It was surprising how much energy Trump had even at the end of the debate, tho. Probably because that was their game plan, to make him look like the man in charge, and make Biden look ineffective.
They managed to do this to some extent, but I don't think that'll be nearly enough to sway any big chunk of voters.

[Dolan]

@Riotcoke
It could be worse. Romania has bought some of the warships decommissioned by the UK:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_ ... and_(F221)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_London_(F95)

Yea that's kind of normal you guys didn't go from the biggest navy to a puny one though.

Yeah, that's an embarrassment for Britain, considering your history as a naval power.

[Jam]

@Goodspeed I watched the debate live and, at times, Biden did appear like a tired old man, which is normal considering his age.
It was surprising how much energy Trump had even at the end of the debate, tho. Probably because that was their game plan, to make him look like the man in charge, and make Biden look ineffective.
They managed to do this to some extent, but I don't think that'll be nearly enough to sway any big chunk of voters.

Maybe that's because Trump is taking performance enhancing drugs.