US Politics Megathread

[fightinfrenchman]

What's the main problem then

A political system that allows a minority of voters to gain complete control over the federal government

I'm reading: The electoral college & redistricting laws. That's 2 problems. That's not a valid answer, it's like answering "green and blue" to "what's your favorite color?"
Pick one.

Of those two I would say the electoral college. But I rescind my answer with that being the main problem, the main problem is that one of the two parties fundamentally doesn't believe in liberal democracy

[fightinfrenchman]

This is my answer to the question of what 3 people alive or dead you'd like to have dinner with

[Goodspeed]

Show hidden quotes

What's the main problem then

A political system that allows a minority of voters to gain complete control over the federal government

I'm reading: The electoral college & redistricting laws. That's 2 problems. That's not a valid answer, it's like answering "green and blue" to "what's your favorite color?"
Pick one.

Of those two I would say the electoral college. But I rescind my answer with that being the main problem, the main problem is that one of the two parties fundamentally doesn't believe in liberal democracy

I mean the main systemic problem. You know, the kind of thing that would cause one of the parties to go completely rogue

[fightinfrenchman]

Show hidden quotes

What's the main problem then

A political system that allows a minority of voters to gain complete control over the federal government

I'm reading: The electoral college & redistricting laws. That's 2 problems. That's not a valid answer, it's like answering "green and blue" to "what's your favorite color?"
Pick one.

Of those two I would say the electoral college. But I rescind my answer with that being the main problem, the main problem is that one of the two parties fundamentally doesn't believe in liberal democracy

I mean the main systemic problem. You know, the kind of thing that would cause one of the parties to go completely rogue

The kind of thing that would cause that was electing a Black man as president

[Goodspeed]

That's not systemic either

Come on, engage brain cells

[fightinfrenchman]

I agree that primaries are generally bad but they're not inherently the main problem, if the Republican party were normal they could use primaries to stop lunatics like Trump from getting nominated. The reason their primaries result in increasingly extreme candidates is that Republican voters have extreme beliefs largely motivated by racial resentment. So all of these things are pretty related tbh

[Goodspeed]

Without primaries Trump would never have been a candidate

[fightinfrenchman]

Without primaries Trump would never have been a candidate

How would you propose presidential candidates get picked instead?

[Dolan]

They should all get picked by Francis Fukuyama personally

[Goodspeed]

Without primaries Trump would never have been a candidate

How would you propose presidential candidates get picked instead?

By party leadership

[fightinfrenchman]

Who do you think Republican party leadership would have picked in 2012 or 2016 if there were no primaries

[Goodspeed]

Idk, everything would be different. For one, there would be much less corruption and with a weaker corporate lobby the party wouldn't be the same. But hypothetically if they stopped having primaries in 2016 and the party would be the same it was then, maybe Cruz?

[Dolan]

Yeah it would have been Cruz and he'd have lost the elections

[fightinfrenchman]

And how do you think the Republican base would have reacted to Cruz being picked and then losing? Keep in mind that this group of people also claimed the election that they won was rigged against them

[Goodspeed]

Poorly but they almost certainly wouldn't have attempted a coup. The coup was mostly Trump's doing.

Anyway the point that's getting lost is that neither of the parties would be the same if primaries weren't a thing. Significantly weakening lobbyists would change everything

[fightinfrenchman]

Do you think the Republican party repeatedly choosing candidates that their base hates would be sustainable? I mean just look at how often in this thread people say the 2016 and 2020 Dem primaries were rigged

[Dolan]

Trump was the culmination of the Tea Party movement. If they didn't get their candidate picked by the Repub caucus, they'd probably raise hell.
They already don't trust any establishment figure, including from the Republican camp.
Changing how votes are thrown in or counted for the sake of getting more moderates elected will just turn the grassroots' frustrations even more explosive.
Then who knows where will this blow up: civil unrest, tax boycott, refusal to deliver food and water to blue states, an attrition war with both blue states and establishment Republicans, etc.
Some of these things will eventually happen anyway, electoral rules changed or not.

[fightinfrenchman]

Trump was the culmination of the Tea Party movement. If they didn't get their candidate picked by the Repub caucus, they'd probably raise hell.

Some good evidence of this is that when the American public didn't pick the Republican candidate they tried to violently overthrow the government

[fightinfrenchman]

Assuming Republicans take the House in November, who are we thinking will become Speaker?

[Dolan]

Trump was the culmination of the Tea Party movement. If they didn't get their candidate picked by the Repub caucus, they'd probably raise hell.

Some good evidence of this is that when the American public didn't pick the Republican candidate they tried to violently overthrow the government

It's in the country's DNA, as the US was established by violently overthrowing the British government's authority in the land.
Old habits die hard

[Goodspeed]

Do you think the Republican party repeatedly choosing candidates that their base hates would be sustainable? I mean just look at how often in this thread people say the 2016 and 2020 Dem primaries were rigged

Anti-establishment rhetoric would have had a place in the GOP's message but Trump, who isn't a party insider, would never have made it that far. The fact that some rando, through appealing to a specific subset of voters alone, can force an entire party to bend to his/her will is bad. Weak parties are bad.

[RefluxSemantic]

I don't really see any great arguments as to why primaries are the main problem though. Hypothetically claiming that things would definitely have been different isn't a serious argument.

[Goodspeed]

I'm trying to get ear to actually engage in some kind of discussion for the first time in his life. I don't want to spend time making the argument knowing I'll get nothing in return. The prompt was to "change my mind"

What do you think is the biggest problem?

[RefluxSemantic]

I'm trying to get ear to actually engage in some kind of discussion for the first time in his life. I don't want to spend time making the argument knowing I'll get nothing in return. The prompt was to "change my mind"

What do you think is the biggest problem?

I think ultimately the biggest problem is the way the senators are elected. It's ridiculous that a state like Wyoming gets as much of a say as California does. It's inherently undemocratic and leads to minority opinions having a senate majority. Although maybe the two party system is an even bigger problem. But arguably the two party system is also sustained by the way senators are elected.

I do think that the problems are more complex than something that can reasonably be boiled down to a single biggest problem.

[n0el]

There are so many fundamental issues that are all interconnected it is impossible to say which one is the biggest. It is a chicken and egg situation.