US Politics Megathread
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- Howdah
- Posts: 1676
- Joined: May 6, 2021
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Re: US Politics Megathread
brain broke. had the tools to wreak ez harm
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
Re: US Politics Megathread
the virgin elected leader vs. the chad monarch ordained by the divine right of kingsJavon wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 15:21I'm not really following US politics too much, so can you please tell me more about DeSantis' stance on free markets, individual rights and equal treatement under the law? Anyway Trump - DeSantis primary would make one pivot away from culture war issues as they can't be both on stage shouting the same thing without destroying each other in the polls. If neither pivoted, then a third candidate could gain ground. I found it weird that DeSantis forbid local governments from levying fines to enforce covid-19 restrictions.lejend wrote: ↑15 Nov 2022, 22:41He might be better than Trump, but that's a low bar to clear. DeSantis seems to have a few things going for him, but I haven't found him to be that different from Trump in terms of their antipathy toward free markets, individual rights and equal treatment under the law. A DeSantis administration would in all likelihood prioritize 'culture war' issues over anything else, so it's really just Trumpism without Trump.Javon wrote: ↑15 Nov 2022, 19:02I'm happy to see election deniers losing to Democrats. Such talk from politicians (without evidence) is dangerous to democracy and USA should continue to pride itself on being a democracy. Given the choice between DeSantis and Trump, I hope that DeSantis becomes the frontrunner of the Republican party in 2024. I recently read an in-depth article about DeSantis on Financial Times (https://www.ft.com/content/3aa3b7a6-8f7 ... 8946198aa7) and he seems to be better than what I was led to believe. Media from my country didn't do him justice.
- harcha
- Gendarme
- Posts: 5136
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Re: US Politics Megathread
Menace to South Central was spotted Drinking Juice in the Hood
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: US Politics Megathread
Banning government restrictions sounds fine, but the problem is he banned private businesses from having their own mask/vaccine mandates. He also wants to restrict immigration and force private social media companies to host speech they find objectionable. None of which is really compatible with free markets and individual rights.Javon wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 15:21I found it weird that DeSantis forbid local governments from levying fines to enforce covid-19 restrictions.lejend wrote: ↑15 Nov 2022, 22:41He might be better than Trump, but that's a low bar to clear. DeSantis seems to have a few things going for him, but I haven't found him to be that different from Trump in terms of their antipathy toward free markets, individual rights and equal treatment under the law. A DeSantis administration would in all likelihood prioritize 'culture war' issues over anything else, so it's really just Trumpism without Trump.Javon wrote: ↑15 Nov 2022, 19:02I'm happy to see election deniers losing to Democrats. Such talk from politicians (without evidence) is dangerous to democracy and USA should continue to pride itself on being a democracy. Given the choice between DeSantis and Trump, I hope that DeSantis becomes the frontrunner of the Republican party in 2024. I recently read an in-depth article about DeSantis on Financial Times (https://www.ft.com/content/3aa3b7a6-8f7 ... 8946198aa7) and he seems to be better than what I was led to believe. Media from my country didn't do him justice.
DeSantis belongs to a new crop of Republicans who are more open about their hostility to capitalism. They call themselves "National Conservatives" to emphasize their deviation from free-market principles when they go against the "national interest", which seems to be just code for their own private interests or personal vision of how the country should look like. NatCons don't object to the government imposing values or picking winners and losers in the economy, they just want to be the ones doing it. Instead of getting the government out of people's lives, they're aiming to "capture" the government and use its power to reward their friends and punish their enemies in private society.I'm not really following US politics too much, so can you please tell me more about DeSantis' stance on free markets, individual rights and equal treatement under the law?
Ron DeSantis
I think the lesson for people on the Right is, I think there was a generation of people for whom kind of the muscle memory was, if it’s private, just defer to it. If it’s a corporation, let them do what they want to do.
My view is, is, you know, obviously, free enterprise is the best economic system. But that is a means to an end: it’s a means to having a good fulfilling life and a prosperous society. It’s not an end in and of itself. And we need to make sure that we have that firmly in mind. The United States is a nation that has an economy, not the other way around. And our economy should be geared toward helping our own people.
...
So when people say like, “oh, you’re using government in the private sector,” what I’m doing is using government to give space to the individual citizen to be able to participate in society.
John Daniel Davidson
The imperative that conservatives must break from the past and forge a new political identity cannot be overstated. It is time now for something new, for a new way of thinking and speaking about what conservative politics should be. The fusionism of past decades, in which conservatives made common cause with market-obsessed libertarians and foreign policy neocons, is finished. The election of Donald Trump in 2016 heralded a populist wave and the end of Republican politics as we knew it, and now we are in uncharted waters.
Put bluntly, if conservatives want to save the country they are going to have to rebuild and in a sense re-found it, and that means getting used to the idea of wielding power, not despising it.
The left will only stop when conservatives stop them, which means conservatives will have to discard outdated and irrelevant notions about “small government.” The government will have to become, in the hands of conservatives, an instrument of renewal in American life — and in some cases, a blunt instrument indeed.
J.D. Vance
“I tend to think that we should seize the institutions of the left,” he said. “And turn them against the left. We need like a de-Baathification program, a de-woke-ification program.”
“I think Trump is going to run again in 2024,” he said. “I think that what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people.”
“And when the courts stop you,” he went on, “stand before the country, and say—” he quoted Andrew Jackson, giving a challenge to the entire constitutional order—“the chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.”
“We are in a late republican period,” Vance said later, evoking the common New Right view of America as Rome awaiting its Caesar. “If we’re going to push back against it, we’re going to have to get pretty wild, and pretty far out there, and go in directions that a lot of conservatives right now are uncomfortable with.”
Re: US Politics Megathread
@lejend Alright, but that's mostly his stance on free markets, I don't see how he obstructed individual rights or has a record with unequal treatement of people under the law.
Re: US Politics Megathread
Just to say it: capitalism doesn't necessarily imply free markets. You can, e.g., very well have a capitalist society with significant obstacles to free competition in the form of regulation or direct intervention. There is nothing objectively hostile to capitalism in the De Santis quote above. Free enterprise also doesn't imply competition (the thing we actually want).
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
- harcha
- Gendarme
- Posts: 5136
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- ESO: hatamoto_samurai
Re: US Politics Megathread
bad buzzwords => bad
good buzzwords => good
good buzzwords => good
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
- fightinfrenchman
- Ninja
- Posts: 23505
- Joined: Oct 17, 2015
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: US Politics Megathread
Sometimes I want to make a post on here but then I think about someone I respect criticizing me for making it so I don't
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Re: US Politics Megathread
for different reasons, same though. I used to find off topic to be a place of good discussion but these days this is all it amounts to. there are like 3 users who spout misinformation or other nonsense in bad faith and then don't engage in a real discussion when you actually take it upon yourself to try to have a fair argument about the merits of said bad points.fightinfrenchman wrote: ↑24 Dec 2022, 06:27Sometimes I want to make a post on here but then I think about someone I respect criticizing me for making it so I don't
it's pointless
Re: US Politics Megathread
Idk tbh there were like only two people on this forum who had/have a professional connection with politics but they didn't go around telling everyone how their views are amateuristic or misinformed. Even tho they easily could have
It's really one thing how you see things from the outside and how you see them when you actually had to manage them yourself.
People who see things from the outside tend to speak more from idealistic or optimising viewpoints, always projecting this well-wishing attitude and pointing out that politicians always fall short of their idealistic optimal expectations, but how things are handled irl is more like Realpolitik, the filthy and messy management of conflicting human affairs
Anyway, it's already pointless to debate US politics, because I think there's no political solution to the US anymore, it's now beyond and beside politics
It's really one thing how you see things from the outside and how you see them when you actually had to manage them yourself.
People who see things from the outside tend to speak more from idealistic or optimising viewpoints, always projecting this well-wishing attitude and pointing out that politicians always fall short of their idealistic optimal expectations, but how things are handled irl is more like Realpolitik, the filthy and messy management of conflicting human affairs
Anyway, it's already pointless to debate US politics, because I think there's no political solution to the US anymore, it's now beyond and beside politics
- fightinfrenchman
- Ninja
- Posts: 23505
- Joined: Oct 17, 2015
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: US Politics Megathread
This should resolve all discussion about US Politics. It sums it all up quite well. You get all kinds of crazy you can ask for
Re: US Politics Megathread
I needed 81 pages to get things to that conclusion
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- Howdah
- Posts: 1676
- Joined: May 6, 2021
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Re: US Politics Megathread
Can’t find it but I had brought up I’d heard the slim GOP majority could be worse than a larger majority, given subject to whims of far right. The counterpoint was maybe it could be subject to whims of moderates.
Welsh, 20 right reps are holding the speaker vote hostage. McCarthy already made concessions to “vote the chair” which changes the party numbers needed to force a vote on ousting the chair from majority (112) to just 5. Seems pretty hostage-y to me. Actually I’m incredulous. And it STILL wasn’t enough.
Bipartisanship is so impossible GOP will always move right in house than ever left. Or-- idk how these things work.
Welsh, 20 right reps are holding the speaker vote hostage. McCarthy already made concessions to “vote the chair” which changes the party numbers needed to force a vote on ousting the chair from majority (112) to just 5. Seems pretty hostage-y to me. Actually I’m incredulous. And it STILL wasn’t enough.
Bipartisanship is so impossible GOP will always move right in house than ever left. Or-- idk how these things work.
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
Re: US Politics Megathread
I'm curious how this will progress and luckily not as directly affected as you. On paper, I would expect that the mechanism you describe will favor Dems as moving further to the right is likely to alienate swing voters even more. Which would then drive Reps back towards the middle. We could also see the Reps breaking apart. Crises like this can often be used as window of opportunity to make more fundamental changes for the better.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Re: US Politics Megathread
The GOP has been in increasing levels of shambles since 2008. The dems will take advantage long term. It's just going to take a while for it to bear fruit. Too long probably for a global climate-friendly political order to rise in time.
Re: US Politics Megathread
GOP still holding on to the Washington DC game is what keeps the USA still in one piece, as it maintains this illusion that power succession will "solve problems", that they'll be able to score a few points for the team on the next elections they win. Once they split and it becomes clear there can be no solution in DC, then those split right-wing forces will have no interest whatsoever to play ball with the federal government if they know they cannot get any representation and cannot win any future elections. Then pressure to limit the authority of the federal government at state level will heighten, which doesn't mean it will lead to secession. It could also get stuck somewhere in between, unable to either split or solve differences. Something like staying together for the kids, though in the USA's case it's probably more about staying together for the bigger power projection offered by a common army and the global financial clout of the dollar.
A less likely possibility would be that somehow Reps splitting leads to a third party, a "hinge" party, that could help complete a majority when each big party fails to get one. But if this hinge party represents a more extreme bunch of political attitudes, then it's more of a wedge party that both sides would want to avoid but could not ignore. But then you never know if a third party emerges it's possible this would change voting patterns and this third option could draw swing voters from both parties, depending on how they position themselves on issues.
Whatever happens, it's becoming obvious that the two-party system in the USA is starting to crack and it can't revert to the previous stable state.
A less likely possibility would be that somehow Reps splitting leads to a third party, a "hinge" party, that could help complete a majority when each big party fails to get one. But if this hinge party represents a more extreme bunch of political attitudes, then it's more of a wedge party that both sides would want to avoid but could not ignore. But then you never know if a third party emerges it's possible this would change voting patterns and this third option could draw swing voters from both parties, depending on how they position themselves on issues.
Whatever happens, it's becoming obvious that the two-party system in the USA is starting to crack and it can't revert to the previous stable state.
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