US Politics Megathread

[Dolan]

More than 50% of Americans in 2012 had over 50000 USD annual income. Why would they be desperate for universal healthcare?
Their average income in 2012 was 51000 USD. The only country with a higher average income level in that year was Luxembourg, I think. Hard to argue that Americans have low average income, if you compare it to other countries around the world.

[Goodspeed]

That's households, not people. Considering the average size of a US household is about 2.5 people, 50k a year is actually not that much. More alarming though is the relatively large share of households with incomes much lower than that.

More than 50% of Americans in 2012 had over 50000 USD annual income. Why would they be desperate for universal healthcare?

Because currently, even with expensive insurance, most of them could be financially ruined by health issues.

[Dolan]

Look, if you check GDP per capita in terms of purchasing power parity, the USA is among the first 15 countries in the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita

But take into account those that are among the first are tax havens or oil economies.

You could say that the USA has bigger first world problems than other first world countries, but not that most of them live below poverty level or something like that.

Sure, healthcare costs could ruin you if you happen to be among those 5-6% that have a very low income and if you also have a very unhealthy lifestyle. Many of those prevalent health issues could have been prevented by smarter lifestyles, but this seems to be a cultural issue in the US.

[n0el]

Healthcare costs can ruin and do ruin people that are middle to high income and are healthy.

[Dolan]

That's probably because you allow your companies to price their services through the roof, which means competition doesn't work, it doesn't adjust prices according to what consumers can afford. Look at the drugs market and the recent decision to allow drug imports. Your politicians must have realised lack of functional competition makes American companies converge on higher overall prices, compared to other foreign producers.

[n0el]

Well of course. Corporations own the country.

[Goodspeed]

You could say that the USA has bigger first world problems than other first world countries, but not that most of them live below poverty level or something like that.

I didn't say that?

[Dolan]

Well of course. Corporations own the country.

It's part of your country's culture. That's why Europeans went there in droves in the first place.



The gold rush mentality. Why stay in Europe, where you'd be shackled by regulations, a strong state, trade unions, fragmented politics, when you can go to America, where there are almost no rules, just mah freedum, mah guns and a huge amount of resources you can exploit to get rich fast. That mentality was enshrined in the genetics of your society and economy and you see the effects of it in how corporations treat people, as nothing more than another resource to exploit. I doubt politics alone can change that.

[n0el]

That's not the same thing as the american culture. AMerican culture is that I can start my own enterprise and I have a fair chance to succeed. The corporate culture we will in today is opposed to that.

[Dolan]

You could say that the USA has bigger first world problems than other first world countries, but not that most of them live below poverty level or something like that.

I didn't say that?

You said:

That's households, not people. Considering the average size of a US household is about 2.5 people, 50k a year is actually not that much. More alarming though is the relatively large share of households with incomes much lower than that.

More than 50% of Americans in 2012 had over 50000 USD annual income. Why would they be desperate for universal healthcare?

Because currently, even with expensive insurance, most of them could be financially ruined by health issues.

How much do you think is the average income per household in other developed countries? Why do you think Americans somehow have it worse than other developed countries just because they might have to pay more for healthcare? It's not like most people get serious health issues that could ruin them.

Do you have any numbers that show that "even with expensive insurance, most of them could be financially ruined by health issues"? "Could" could be easily read as a weasel word, maybe it's a better idea to check how many have been actually unable to pay for healthcare.

Let's also not forget that some kinds of healthcare services are more expensive in the USA simply because they are cutting edge procedures, that are not available anywhere else. So if those Americans lived in other countries with that health condition they might not even have the choice of getting any treatment at all.

[Amsel_]

America, where there are almost no rules, just mah freedum, mah guns and a huge amount of resources you can exploit to get rich fast.

God damn, I love being American.

[Goodspeed]

How much do you think is the average income per household in other developed countries? Why do you think Americans somehow have it worse than other developed countries just because they might have to pay more for healthcare?

Where did I say I thought it was just because of that?

As for the average household income, I don't think it's particularly meaningful because of the widening gap between the top and bottom incomes (illustrated by 10k-15k being the most common household income). More relevant is the number of people living near or below the poverty line. Anyway, the context of me saying it's "not that much" was in reply to your statement that it would be enough not to worry about health care, and your statement that it was per person instead of per household. 2.5 people making a living off $50k a year is already not trivial in most places in the US, and becomes very hard when you run into unexpected health care costs.

Do you have any numbers that show that "even with expensive insurance, most of them could be financially ruined by health issues"? "Could" could be easily read as a weasel word, maybe it's a better idea to check how many have been actually unable to pay for healthcare.

The internet has these numbers. If you're unsure about why the US health care system compares unfavorably to that of other first world countries, or are unaware of the relatively common issue where middle class people face financial ruin because health care is unaffordable, you need only read up on the matter. There's nothing to discuss here.

[spanky4ever]

here are some brand new figures.
I will make some quotes, and leave the link for the full study/story.

America's unemployment rate is at a half-century low, but it also has a job-quality problem that affects nearly half the population, with a study finding 44% of U.S. workers are employed in low-wage jobs that pay median annual wages of $18,000.

Contrary to popular opinion, these workers aren't teenagers or young adults just starting their careers, write Martha Ross and Nicole Bateman of the Brookings Institution's Metropolitan Policy Program, which conducted the analysis.

Most of the 53 million Americans working in low-wage jobs are adults in their prime working years, or between about 25 to 54, they noted. Their median hourly wage is $10.22 per hour — that's above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour but well below what's considered the living wage for many regions.

So what makes a good job? Simply put, middle-class wages and benefits like health insurance, according to previous research from Brookings. But only about 30 million Americans have good jobs by that definition — and most of those are held by workers with college degrees, it found.

The reality is that Americans are working but aren't earning enough to gain stable economic footings. As Ross and Bateman noted, "Nearly half of all workers earn wages that are not enough, on their own, to promote economic security."

39 million citizens need programs to provide food. That is kind of crazy, in the richest country in the world. But again, the discussion will be about inequality. We have had that debate, over and over again in this thread, and many other ones.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wa ... wage-jobs/

[fightinfrenchman]

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

[Goodspeed]

Can you work remotely?

[Amsel_]

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

[fightinfrenchman]

Can you work remotely?

No but the plus side is I may lose this job in a couple months

[fightinfrenchman]

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

Agreed, most office workers spend half those 40 hours just not doing shit anyway

[Horsemen]

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

Agreed, most office workers spend half those 40 hours just not doing shit anyway

Maybe but not for all jobs

[fightinfrenchman]

Show hidden quotes

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

Agreed, most office workers spend half those 40 hours just not doing shit anyway

Maybe but not for all jobs

It's a stupid mentality that people think being at work longer makes you more productive. It doesn't, just makes people miserable by wasting their time not doing shit

[Jam]

Show hidden quotes

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

Agreed, most office workers spend half those 40 hours just not doing shit anyway

Maybe but not for all jobs

It's a stupid mentality that people think being at work longer makes you more productive. It doesn't, just makes people miserable by wasting their time not doing shit

Maybe you'd be more productive if you had a better attitude.

[fightinfrenchman]

Show hidden quotes

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

Agreed, most office workers spend half those 40 hours just not doing shit anyway

Maybe but not for all jobs

It's a stupid mentality that people think being at work longer makes you more productive. It doesn't, just makes people miserable by wasting their time not doing shit

Maybe you'd be more productive if you had a better attitude.

There's nothing to do other than shitpost

[Horsemen]

Show hidden quotes

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

Agreed, most office workers spend half those 40 hours just not doing shit anyway

Maybe but not for all jobs

It's a stupid mentality that people think being at work longer makes you more productive. It doesn't, just makes people miserable by wasting their time not doing shit

Maybe you'd be more productive if you had a better attitude.

There's nothing to do other than shitpost

I wish I had your job

[fightinfrenchman]

Show hidden quotes

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

Agreed, most office workers spend half those 40 hours just not doing shit anyway

Maybe but not for all jobs

It's a stupid mentality that people think being at work longer makes you more productive. It doesn't, just makes people miserable by wasting their time not doing shit

Maybe you'd be more productive if you had a better attitude.

There's nothing to do other than shitpost

I wish I had your job

It's not as fun as it sounds

[Cometk]

Show hidden quotes

I don't want my job to pay me any more money, I just want it to pay me the same amount of money but cut my hours by 90% since I spend so much time sitting around doing nothing.

40 hour work week is obsolete, tbh.

Agreed, most office workers spend half those 40 hours just not doing shit anyway

Maybe but not for all jobs

It's a stupid mentality that people think being at work longer makes you more productive. It doesn't, just makes people miserable by wasting their time not doing shit

Maybe you'd be more productive if you had a better attitude.

There's nothing to do other than shitpost

I wish I had your job

It's not as fun as it sounds

You should read books. I used to work call reception like you and had quite a bit of downtime on slow nights. Having a lot of free time to read was an immense pleasure and a luxury that I miss having. I can send you some books if you’re interested.