SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

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United States of America n0el
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SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by n0el »

https://twitter.com/deepmindai/status/1 ... 03426?s=21

Interesting stuff. Since there are casters, I’d assume there is going to be some kind of match. Maybe a hint into general AI RTS strategy.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Goodspeed »

Very curious about their progress. This research has the potential to shape humanity's future.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by deleted_user »

Knew someone who knew someone who worked on DeepMind.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Horsemen »

AI is a buzzword that will disappear after the next recession
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by momuuu »

Horsemen wrote:AI is a buzzword that will disappear after the next recession

There is maybe a bit too much hype, but what deepmind has achieved was already groundbreaking and beating sc2 would be another huge succes.

I dont think AI is a buzzword to be honest. Its one of the few technological advances that was bound to happen some day. It survived the previous recessions, so it should survive the next.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by deleted_user0 »

deleted_user wrote:Knew someone who knew someone who worked on DeepMind.


Wow! Can I have your autographsh? :kinggreen:
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Goodspeed »

I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows [insert anyone you can think of]
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Dolan »

Horsemen wrote:AI is a buzzword that will disappear after the next recession

Yeah, it is a buzzword, though it has more substance than other buzzwords like "blockchain technology".

"AI" is nothing more than algorithms, there's nothing particularly magical about the subject. Before it became the subject of media hype, it used to be obsessively debated in niche circles like those of singulatarians, various strands of transhumanists, academics, etc.
As the global economic media needed new buzzwords to feed their own illusions of "growth", the subject of AI was picked up and exploited as a new useful illusion for investors and as a new marketing pitch for companies selling gadgets.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by edeholland »

Goodspeed wrote:I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows [insert anyone you can think of]
I wonder how many iterations you need to get to/from every person in the world. This of course depends on your definition of "knowing" someone, but still.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by n0el »

Six degrees of separation
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Goodspeed »

Yeah they say 6. But I think that if you count internet acquaintances it should be 5 for the vast majority of people.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by momuuu »

Goodspeed wrote:Yeah they say 6. But I think that if you count internet acquaintances it should be 5 for the vast majority of people.

I wonder how this accounts for relatively isolated people who only know 2-3 people.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by deleted_user0 »

Dolan wrote:
Horsemen wrote:AI is a buzzword that will disappear after the next recession

Yeah, it is a buzzword, though it has more substance than other buzzwords like "blockchain technology".

"AI" is nothing more than algorithms, there's nothing particularly magical about the subject. Before it became the subject of media hype, it used to be obsessively debated in niche circles like those of singulatarians, various strands of transhumanists, academics, etc.
As the global economic media needed new buzzwords to feed their own illusions of "growth", the subject of AI was picked up and exploited as a new useful illusion for investors and as a new marketing pitch for companies selling gadgets.


Just like that time people thought the internet was just a buzzword
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Goodspeed »

Buzzword is a buzzword.

Machine learning is in its infancy, and already used for a wide variety of applications. The hype is justified imo, though of course some people overdo it.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by deleted_user0 »

buzzword is a buzzword is a buzzword


buzzword
this isn't a buzzword
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by fightinfrenchman »

momuuu wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Yeah they say 6. But I think that if you count internet acquaintances it should be 5 for the vast majority of people.

I wonder how this accounts for relatively isolated people who only know 2-3 people.


You okay bud?
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by momuuu »

So it actually beat TLO, but TLO played pretty poorly. So far it looks like a strong human though, it's pretty cool.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by n0el »

Now it is going to 3-0 MaNa.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by momuuu »

So eh, so far I honestly just feel like the AI was overtuned in the mechanical department. It hasn't truly seemed to show extremely intelligent play.

Imo the problem is that it's effective apm is way higher than that of a pro gamer, even if the apm is comparable.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by momuuu »

Rotterdam also stating now that it's mechanics in that recent game were 'not human'.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Goodspeed »

momuuu wrote:So eh, so far I honestly just feel like the AI was overtuned in the mechanical department. It hasn't truly seemed to show extremely intelligent play.

Imo the problem is that it's effective apm is way higher than that of a pro gamer, even if the apm is comparable.
Agree. Full stalker builds would never be viable for any human.
But it did show intelligent play in other areas. And this is with only 2 weeks of training. The difference between the first and second iteration was huge.

Overall very impressive.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by momuuu »

Goodspeed wrote:
momuuu wrote:So eh, so far I honestly just feel like the AI was overtuned in the mechanical department. It hasn't truly seemed to show extremely intelligent play.

Imo the problem is that it's effective apm is way higher than that of a pro gamer, even if the apm is comparable.
Agree. Full stalker builds would never be viable for any human.
But it did show intelligent play in other areas. And this is with only 2 weeks of training. The difference between the first and second iteration was huge.

Overall very impressive.

I mean, the potential is seemingly rather impressive and obviously it's a huge achievement that it could do reasonably okay at starcraft 2.

However: It didn't really show impressive 'intelligence'. Like I said in the analysis of the dota AI (to be found somewhere in this thread), the AI is excellent at the intuitive play. But again it seems to not be great strategically. In other words, currently if you want to know how to play aoe3 you should ask diarouga and not deepmind. I also wonder to what extend it can improve upon this. It could be that there is an actual limit to how good it can become. Maybe it will take hundreds of weeks for it to actually 'trial and error' its way to strategic understanding.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Goodspeed »

It didn't show impressive intelligence, but it definitely showed "understanding" of strategic concepts. It knew, for example, to camp stalkers in its mineral line when there were enemy oracles on the map. It knew when to engage in fights. It knew when it was safe to expand. And it knew to make probes, lol. SC2 pros' lackluster worker production has honestly baffled me for years.
All basic stuff (although many human players love to take bad fights), but it does show that the method works and this is with only a week or two of training. I agree that it's mostly potential that they showed here, but for me it went way beyond expectations.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Nice demonstration. Its APM wasn't human at all though. At some point during fights, you could clearly see AlphaStar blinking multiple stalkers individually in the same second while its APM spiked to 1500+. I think the biggest advantage these AIs have is their mouse accuracy, even with limited APM. As far as I understand it, AlphaStar can click anywhere on the screen whenever it wants to. That takes away both the burden of mouse accuracy and mouse speed. Imagine a CSGO AI with perfect mouse accuracy and you have what is basically a perfect aimbot. All in all, it's terrifying to see that AI has come so far that it clean sweeps a pro player even with limitations. The futuristic dystopia of robots taking over the world is becoming more likely with the day.
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Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Post by n0el »

I’d like to see it play Terran tbh. Imagine not building a walled in base.
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