ESOC Gender Identity Corner

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Nauru Dolan
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by Dolan »

Don't listen to that guy. If I make a joke about a clown pinching his nose, then in his mind it must be some secret code word for Jews. So if I ever make any joke that involves noses and the absurd state of the world, then it will mean I am secretely implying a certain ethnic group is to blame.

What can I say... I am too subtle.

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What's wrong with criticising a certain ethnic group anyway. Slovaks, Romanians, Swedes, Nepalese, Israelis, Kurds. I don't really give a shit, I would criticise them all.
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Spain Snuden
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by Snuden »

Googol wrote:Hm, maybe or maybe not. But i myself doubt he associates himself with Hitlerist National Socialist ideology from what have i read from him, maybe he is not aware or he is just making some edgy jokes. But as i said i doubt he is a neo-nazi.

See you in Prague in September. Hail.
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by Googol »

Snuden wrote:
Googol wrote:Hm, maybe or maybe not. But i myself doubt he associates himself with Hitlerist National Socialist ideology from what have i read from him, maybe he is not aware or he is just making some edgy jokes. But as i said i doubt he is a neo-nazi.

See you in Prague in September. Hail.


Specific day?
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by Snuden »

Googol wrote:
Snuden wrote:
Googol wrote:Hm, maybe or maybe not. But i myself doubt he associates himself with Hitlerist National Socialist ideology from what have i read from him, maybe he is not aware or he is just making some edgy jokes. But as i said i doubt he is a neo-nazi.

See you in Prague in September. Hail.


Specific day?

Not yet. I will stay 3-4 days.
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by Googol »

Alright, nice ! Looking forward to it
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European Union UrvyZnapy
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by UrvyZnapy »

Wow you guys do so many meetups
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Korea South Vinyanyérë
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

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Post by Vinyanyérë »

Googol wrote:Hm, maybe or maybe not. But i myself doubt he associates himself with Hitlerist National Socialist ideology from what have i read from him, maybe he is not aware or he is just making some edgy jokes. But as i said i doubt he is a neo-nazi.


The clown stuff is pretty well-understood. It stems from or was popularized by the now-banned /r/frenworld, a Neo-Nazi subreddit that hid its views behind a layer of coding. You can read a bunch about it here if you'd like. The clown pepe featured heavily in that sub; this was a way to refer to Jews or other "non-frens" without having to explicitly mention the subject matter.

There's a lot of reasons why someone might want to do that. It's an example of a popular technique used to spread fascism today, where a particular idea, (say, "Jews run the world") is wrapped up in some coding - "Jews run the world" becomes "Clowns run the world" becomes a video of a clown running ( :hmm: ) on a ball, which can now be read as either the original message or as a much more innocuous "we live in a clown-world". The deniability is key and serves a number of purposes:

  • It eases people who might be close-but-not-quite-there into the ideology, using humor and memes to normalize ideas and making it easier to accept their unironic versions.
  • People who aren't familiar with the message will, seeing a potentially good meme opportunity, spread it further. Not necessarily memes with any coded language within them, either, innocuous versions that use similar templates or images will bring the meme into greater attention and will benefit Nazis. OR, people who are familiar with the messaging but disagree that it exists will spread it as a way of spiting the people who complain. OR, people who are familiar with the messaging, agree that it exists, but disagree that it's harmful will spread it as a way of spiting the people who complain. OR, people who are familiar with the messaging, agree that it exists, agree that the specific views endorsed (say, Nazism and fascism) are bad, but align with adjacent or similar views will spread it as a way of pushing people in that direction and getting to trigger some libs in the process. Wait.
  • People who don't like the messages and don't think the messaging should be spread will start asking "why are there so many Nazis around", and non-Nazis who don't see the messaging will say "what Nazis?". And the people who're trying to draw attention to the topic and yelling "literally right there" start to look pretty unhinged because they're ranting about something that apparently doesn't exist. Uh oh.

You can see this technique applied to more than just clowns, too. It's not the Fourteen Words, its just some random numbers and everyone calling us Nazis is looking too far into it. We're not saying the Holocaust didn't happen, we're just not sure that ovens can bake cookies at the claimed rate. We're not talking about executing Communists and liberals, we just want to show them our helicopter and give them a free tour of the countryside. Socialism is for figs.

Granted, not everyone who uses the clown intends to use it to spread Nazism. That's part of why Nazis like it: if people (including Nazis themselves) use it in innocuous ways, it adds to the deniability. Case in point, I can't tell if you're actually unaware of the techniques used or if you're aware of them, want the ideas underlying them to be spread further, and are posting under the guise of not knowing what the ear is talking about to make him seem more unhinged. Similarly, I'd agree with you in that I don't think Dolan's a Nazi. But I don't think he's ignorant of what he's doing either. Rather, I think he has a number of reactionary viewpoints that he wants to push forward and sees this technique as a way of pushing them forward and triggering some libs. Which is working, of course. It's a good technique.
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by deleted_user »

Methinks duck has been doing his readings
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by fightinfrenchman »

deleted_user wrote:Methinks duck has been doing his readings


Wasting his time interacting with people who engage solely in bad faith though
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Vinyanyérë wrote:Similarly, I'd agree with you in that I don't think Dolan's a Nazi.


Why give the benefit of the doubt in a situation like this?
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by Dolan »

Vinyanyérë wrote:I think he has a number of reactionary viewpoints that he wants to push forward and sees this technique as a way of pushing them forward
Meh, I don't really believe in anything caused by the French Revolution anymore, either reactionary or progressive. They are both dead ends, as far as I'm concerned.
Politically speaking, the way forward can only go through overcoming the legacy of the French Revolution.

But yeah, I guess, there's some value in stirring things up in either direction, in dislodging some common preconceptions about what is allowed to be discussed and in what terms. And, well, it's funny because as someone coming from an Eastern European country that liberated itself from the Communist hell of censorship, I feel I have a lot more (inner) freedom of speech than someone from an ostensibly free Western country, who is paralysed by the fear of not being seen as "that guy" who does not agree with the mainstream political narrative.
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United States of America Amsel_
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by Amsel_ »

Imagine unironically thinking that clown-apu is supposed to represent a jew. I knew the left couldn't meme, but I didn't think they'd be this memetically-challenged.
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by fightinfrenchman »

This is why I just post shit like Superdreadnaught Rail Cannon Gustav Max on the forums
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Great Britain Riotcoke
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Re: ESOC Gender Identity Corner

Post by Riotcoke »

Stop making threads with corner in them, it's offensive.
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