Utopia or Dystopia?

[princeofcarthage]

At this point, assuming a concrete point in recorded history: Start of Ancient Roman Empire i.e. ~7th/8th century bc, do you think the current state of world is an utopia or dystopia or somewhere middle? Explain your answers with reasoning. Thanks

[Amsel_]

Dystopia, and I expect it to only get worse.

[fightinfrenchman]

Ye it's a dystopia because of Toon World

[deleted_user]

Obviously neither.

[rsy]

utopia :)

[Horsemen]

definitely utopia

[fightinfrenchman]

definitely utopia

You'll be feeling differently when the mind virus infects you

[Horsemen]

definitely utopia

You'll be feeling differently when the mind virus infects you

It can't be worse than having sand in your teeth

[fightinfrenchman]

definitely utopia

You'll be feeling differently when the mind virus infects you

It can't be worse than having sand in your teeth

The virus is spreading throughout the UK as we speak. It's only a matter of time before your mind is consumed by Superdreadnought Rail Cannon Gustav Sand with salad in its shapes

[Horsemen]

Show hidden quotes

definitely utopia

You'll be feeling differently when the mind virus infects you

It can't be worse than having sand in your teeth

The virus is spreading throughout the UK as we speak. It's only a matter of time before your mind is consumed by Superdreadnought Rail Cannon Gustav Sand with salad in its shapes

What if I kill myself before the virus spreads?

[fightinfrenchman]

Show hidden quotes

definitely utopia

You'll be feeling differently when the mind virus infects you

It can't be worse than having sand in your teeth

The virus is spreading throughout the UK as we speak. It's only a matter of time before your mind is consumed by Superdreadnought Rail Cannon Gustav Sand with salad in its shapes

What if I kill myself before the virus spreads?

As far as I can tell that's the only way to avoid the virus

[deleted_user0]

At this point, assuming a concrete point in recorded history: Start of Ancient Roman Empire i.e. ~7th/8th century bc, do you think the current state of world is an utopia or dystopia or somewhere middle? Explain your answers with reasoning. Thanks

dont make us do your homework without paying us!

[gamevideo113]

Utopia. Science has gone so far. On the other hand, humans are just the same as they were 3000 years ago and they have always been.

[princeofcarthage]

Dystopia, and I expect it to only get worse.

But, why?

[princeofcarthage]

At this point, assuming a concrete point in recorded history: Start of Ancient Roman Empire i.e. ~7th/8th century bc, do you think the current state of world is an utopia or dystopia or somewhere middle? Explain your answers with reasoning. Thanks

dont make us do your homework without paying us!

Every thread is not a thread where you can troll, if you got nothing to contribute to the topic, get out!.

[princeofcarthage]

Utopia. Science has gone so far. On the other hand, humans are just the same as they were 3000 years ago and they have always been.

are you sure about the human part? Compared to 3000 years ago I feel todays humans are, shorter, fatter, lazy, weaker

[gamevideo113]

Utopia. Science has gone so far. On the other hand, humans are just the same as they were 3000 years ago and they have always been.

are you sure about the human part? Compared to 3000 years ago I feel todays humans are, shorter, fatter, lazy, weaker

Yes i am pretty sure about the human part. How we do things has changed throughout history. Why we do things, on the other hand, has remained remarkably the same.

[princeofcarthage]

Utopia. Science has gone so far. On the other hand, humans are just the same as they were 3000 years ago and they have always been.

are you sure about the human part? Compared to 3000 years ago I feel todays humans are, shorter, fatter, lazy, weaker

Yes i am pretty sure about the human part. How we do things has changed throughout history. Why we do things, on the other hand, has remained remarkably the same.

I disagree with you though, first people used to use live for themselves, individual greedy lives, personal glory etc. Now many join towards a common goal, from personal glory the goals have changed to the benefit of our species and other species in general. We are more connected than ever, global barriers ae slowly eroding away, mankind is moving towards a common ideology and it won't be longing before mankind as a species is united. Earth will be one nation. We are slowly getting ready for age of space exploration, slowly preparing to acknowledge existence of sentient intelligent life outside Earth. These things wouldn't be possible 3000 years ago "why"

[Dolan]

In Europe, at least, it was neither. Greece was slowly starting to recover from the dark ages brought about by the collapse of the Mycenaean civilisation. This recovery centered around establishing trade relations across the Mediterranean. For example, Greeks founded a colony at Cumae in southern Italy (close to current-day Napoli), which became a rich trading center in the 8th century BCE. Part of that trade flux contributed to growth in the villages established on the seven hills that would later slowly merge into an urban settlement that we now call Roma.

This period marks the later stages of the Iron Age in Europe (in some parts it was ending, in others coming into full bloom) and the beginning of proto-historical accounts. Central Europe was going through the early stages of the Hallstatt culture, Italy through the Villanova culture, Greece starting their archaic period, parts of Asia going through the Painted Grey Ware culture, etc. In Europe, they were slowly moving towards completing the last stages of prehistory and heading to a protohistorical period, when the first historical accounts come into being.

Considering that the 9th-8th BCE centuries were still part of prehistory, it's not possible to estimate what was the general atmosphere in the world around that time from direct written sources, but you can get a feeling about how things were going by looking at their artefacts. For example, after the Mycenaean civilisation collapsed in Greece, their pottery lost the sophistication and quality that was characteristic of that period and reverted to more primitive geometric ornaments and shapes. After the ancient dark age ended in Greece and the archaic period began, their pottery gradually started improving significantly, moving on from geometrical shapes to representing dark figures on a colourful background. This could indicate that there was a demand for sophisticated products, which took time to fabricate, and there were enough resources going around to afford both buying and producing such artefacts. So there must have been a generally positive outlook, compared to previous ages that brought a lot of devastation (and possibly invasions), though not really anything resembling utopia.

[deleted_user0]

At this point, assuming a concrete point in recorded history: Start of Ancient Roman Empire i.e. ~7th/8th century bc, do you think the current state of world is an utopia or dystopia or somewhere middle? Explain your answers with reasoning. Thanks

dont make us do your homework without paying us!

Every thread is not a thread where you can troll, if you got nothing to contribute to the topic, get out!.

maybe put more effort into the OP!

[deleted_user0]

In Europe, at least, it was neither. Greece was slowly starting to recover from the dark ages brought about by the collapse of the Mycenaean civilisation. This recovery centered around establishing trade relations across the Mediterranean. For example, Greeks founded a colony at Cumae in southern Italy (close to current-day Napoli), which became a rich trading center in the 8th century BCE. Part of that trade flux contributed to growth in the villages established on the seven hills that would later slowly merge into an urban settlement that we now call Roma.

This period marks the later stages of the Iron Age in Europe (in some parts it was ending, in others coming into full bloom) and the beginning of proto-historical accounts. Central Europe was going through the early stages of the Hallstatt culture, Italy through the Villanova culture, Greece starting their archaic period, parts of Asia going through the Painted Grey Ware culture, etc. In Europe, they were slowly moving towards completing the last stages of prehistory and heading to a protohistorical period, when the first historical accounts come into being.

Considering that the 9th-8th BCE centuries were still part of prehistory, it's not possible to estimate what was the general atmosphere in the world around that time from direct written sources, but you can get a feeling about how things were going by looking at their artefacts. For example, after the Mycenaean civilisation collapsed in Greece, their pottery lost the sophistication and quality that was characteristic of that period and reverted to more primitive geometric ornaments and shapes. After the ancient dark age ended in Greece and the archaic period began, their pottery gradually started improving significantly, moving on from geometrical shapes to representing dark figures on a colourful background. This could indicate that there was a demand for sophisticated products, which took time to fabricate, and there were enough resources going around to afford both buying and producing such artefacts. So there must have been a generally positive outlook, compared to previous ages that brought a lot of devastation (and possibly invasions), though not really anything resembling utopia.

I don't think he was asking whether that time period was utopia/dystopia, but rather, whether our time is utopia or dystopia compared to 8th century B.C., or another specific point in time. At least that's how I read it, it's a bit vague :/

[princeofcarthage]

In Europe, at least, it was neither. Greece was slowly starting to recover from the dark ages brought about by the collapse of the Mycenaean civilisation. This recovery centered around establishing trade relations across the Mediterranean. For example, Greeks founded a colony at Cumae in southern Italy (close to current-day Napoli), which became a rich trading center in the 8th century BCE. Part of that trade flux contributed to growth in the villages established on the seven hills that would later slowly merge into an urban settlement that we now call Roma.

This period marks the later stages of the Iron Age in Europe (in some parts it was ending, in others coming into full bloom) and the beginning of proto-historical accounts. Central Europe was going through the early stages of the Hallstatt culture, Italy through the Villanova culture, Greece starting their archaic period, parts of Asia going through the Painted Grey Ware culture, etc. In Europe, they were slowly moving towards completing the last stages of prehistory and heading to a protohistorical period, when the first historical accounts come into being.

Considering that the 9th-8th BCE centuries were still part of prehistory, it's not possible to estimate what was the general atmosphere in the world around that time from direct written sources, but you can get a feeling about how things were going by looking at their artefacts. For example, after the Mycenaean civilisation collapsed in Greece, their pottery lost the sophistication and quality that was characteristic of that period and reverted to more primitive geometric ornaments and shapes. After the ancient dark age ended in Greece and the archaic period began, their pottery gradually started improving significantly, moving on from geometrical shapes to representing dark figures on a colourful background. This could indicate that there was a demand for sophisticated products, which took time to fabricate, and there were enough resources going around to afford both buying and producing such artefacts. So there must have been a generally positive outlook, compared to previous ages that brought a lot of devastation (and possibly invasions), though not really anything resembling utopia.

I don't think he was asking whether that time period was utopia/dystopia, but rather, whether our time is utopia or dystopia compared to 8th century B.C., or another specific point in time. At least that's how I read it, it's a bit vague :/

What you read/understood is correct.

[occamslightsaber]

Utopia. Science has gone so far. On the other hand, humans are just the same as they were 3000 years ago and they have always been.

are you sure about the human part? Compared to 3000 years ago I feel todays humans are, shorter, fatter, lazy, weaker

Definitely fatter, may be lazier and weaker, but shorter? I think not.

Although, I’ve read that we are no more intelligent than people from the neolithic era. It’s just that we have more organization now and thousands of generations of trial and error.

[Googol]

Utopia i guess.

[Dolan]

Oh right, if you read it in this key, well, in some ways we live utopia compared to late Iron Age, while in others dystopia.

Utopia compared to late Iron Age in terms of:
- medical care - they couldn't have dreamt of what we can cure today
- infrastructure - getting from one side of Europe to the other in about 2 hours or less? that's the stuff myths about celestial gods could be made of
- security - there's something called police that makes sure your neighbourhood is not overwhelmed by crime, national army and military alliances that keep a certain balance and make sure you're not getting invaded and plundered on a regular basis
- free education in many countries and free access to a huge corpus of information (internet, libraries)
- less starvation overall, especially in developed and developing areas
- [spoiler=middle class person could live in something like this:][/spoiler]

Dystopia on these accounts:
- demographic growth accompanied by a huge level of economic production and consumption are depleting some resources in some regions (rare earth metals, sand used in construction aggregates, some types of fish, even fresh water)
- increased urbanisation has led to increased density of population, cities have turned into urban heat islands
- larger populations need many more resources just to keep things going, expensive systematisation of all kinds (economic, logistic, political), for example just to keep the majority of people employed
- mass employment in high-density urban areas: pollution, traffic, increased stress, soaring costs of housing
- technology that has a colossal potential for destruction, even if we think about how different the 2 world wars were from previous ones, when they had no tanks, motorised units, aviation was much less developed as well as explosive technologies (you need to multiply this by many orders of magnitude to realise where are right now)
- [spoiler=no, this is not cyberpunk, this is China][/spoiler]