Re: How To Say

[Dolan]

Yeah, exactly. This racism theme is something that was born in American culture, or more specifically in Anglo culture. We surely don't give shit about this in Eastern Europe.

Wait, racism isn’t a problem in the Balkans? I thought everyone hated one another there.

Also I thought only the Romani were called gypsies, not Romanians.

Romania is not really in the Balkans.
But Balkan peoples don't hate each other on racial grounds, they hate each other based on historical and religious reasons (lots of mixed populations of different ethnic groups that had some historical beef with each other, add some religious differences in the mix and national pride and you get a very fragmented and contentious region). Actually, ethnically they might share more than they'd be willing to admit. They are all some mixtures of Dinarid, Norid and Pontid, basically old Thracian populations with some Slavic haplotypes mixed in.

As for gypsies, they have adopted this politically correct name of "Roma population" or "Romani", which creates a lot of confusion among people who aren't very familiar with this region. They hear the name and think they must be Romanians, even though their origins are actually in the northern part of India, from which they migrated about 800 years ago, during the Mongol invasions in Europe.

[Dolan]

No, the issue is: what's the problem with having negative opinions about certain categories of people and expressing that?

This here is our main point. You categorize people based on arbitrary characteristics such as skin color. Categorizing people in general is bad, since you will always put people into categories who do not belong there.

The word Nigger does not only relate to the skin color but also to the social status of a subhuman being whose only meaningful purpose can be to serve its masters. It is simply the word that slave owners used to describe* their property.


*and justify

I don't categorise anything, these things have been categorised way before I was even born. As far as using labels, I'll repeat the point I made before but nobody bothered to reply to. If black people didn't like this label, why would they use it among themselves?

[fightinfrenchman]

No, the issue is: what's the problem with having negative opinions about certain categories of people and expressing that?

This here is our main point. You categorize people based on arbitrary characteristics such as skin color. Categorizing people in general is bad, since you will always put people into categories who do not belong there.

The word Nigger does not only relate to the skin color but also to the social status of a subhuman being whose only meaningful purpose can be to serve its masters. It is simply the word that slave owners used to describe* their property.


*and justify

I don't categorise anything, these things have been categorised way before I was even born. As far as using labels, I'll repeat the point I made before but nobody bothered to reply to. If black people didn't like this label, why would they use it among themselves?

I guess they must just be really dumb. Thanks for figuring this out, guy who shares anti-Semitic memes all the time.

[deleted_user0]

No, the issue is: what's the problem with having negative opinions about certain categories of people and expressing that?

This here is our main point. You categorize people based on arbitrary characteristics such as skin color. Categorizing people in general is bad, since you will always put people into categories who do not belong there.

The word Nigger does not only relate to the skin color but also to the social status of a subhuman being whose only meaningful purpose can be to serve its masters. It is simply the word that slave owners used to describe* their property.


*and justify

I don't categorise anything, these things have been categorised way before I was even born. As far as using labels, I'll repeat the point I made before but nobody bothered to reply to. If black people didn't like this label, why would they use it among themselves?

Why are you talking about "black people"? Why don't you say americans? Because they are pretty much all americans, and a swedish guy. You will barely if ever hear this in South America, Africa, India, Australian outback, Bangladesh, etc. It's not even anglo-saxon, it's very rare in the UK. And if you do hear it, it's mostly because they listened to American rap and lots of people just copy what they hear (in music) without thinking. Hey '39, sounds familiar?

And why it's used, I already answered that question. You conveniently ignore it because you don't want to hear any explanation that doesn't conform to the conclusion you've already drawn. So don't pretend like you're here for a discussion.

[Dolan]

I missed this reply:

Well yeah, racism is a topic in the USA and elsewhere precisely because they profited from slavery in the past and now they are perpetually stuck in appologising mode.

You don't seem to understand my point. It is not just the USA which profited from slavery. While France, UK, USA, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium and some other profited directly from slavery, ALL countries today benefit from slavery in present and past. The very industrial revolution would not have been possible without loads of the cheapest laborers which you were able to find to pick the cotton for the British textile industry. It was the spark of everything which unfolded afterwards. The very reason that you are currently sitting in your room reading my comment on an electrical device is a consequence of this early push to capitalism in its most gruesome form.

I think you're over-generalising. No, I don't think the reason why I have electricity has something to do with other countries having had once colonial empires and slaves. It has more to do with scientific progress in the 19th century.
Well if you want to generalise to such an extent, we can get to arguments such as "Mozart could not have composed any of his works without drinking coffee".

While Eastern Europe hasn't really had a colonial past, we didn't go around the globe enslaving other peoples. That's why racism is not a topic here, because our history is simply missing this experience, so we aren't beholden to this kind of guilt.

Also here you seem to miss the point. You don't need to have had a colonial past to acknowledge problems of racism. There is not a single country and not a single person on this planet who does not have a history of slavery and oppression. It just depends on how you call it (serfdom anyone?) and how far you look back. You have a 99% chance to have at least one person in your own lineage which has been a slave and another one who owned one. And racism has always been a thing in regions such as Romania which have been constantly conquered and reconquered for the last 2000 years.
The topic is not missing in your history. Your version of history and the people writing your school textbooks just omit it.

I'm afraid you are confusing categories here. Serfdom was not the same as slavery, not at all. Serfs had rights, they were nobody's property. Their main problem was that they did not own any land, so they were forced to pledge allegiance to a local lord or chief to be allowed to work a plot of land, from which they were expected to pay a substantial share of their produce, as well as taxes. But they were free to leave and move elsewhere, although that only meant freedom to enroll yourself in another medieval lord's service. This is a short and simplified description of serfdom, of course, it varied a lot across regions and historical periods (sometimes serfs were tied to their land, for example).
By contrast, slaves were someone's property, who had the right to dispose of them as they saw fit. Completely different historical phenomena.

But we do find it weird that Americans or Germans would keep appologising for what their predecessors did.

And again, you miss the point. Germans do not need to apologize and do not do so. They (well, not all) accept the responsibility of what history teaches us all.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49541111

Your very thinking in national categories is evidence to the fact that you don't see the general relevance of racism and, more general, of discrimination for humanity. It is this very thinking which is inherently racist. We are one people and we have to learn from the past of all mankind out of pure necessity to find suitable organizational structures for the next hundreds of years without comitting suicide as a species. This is a tremendous task.

I'm actually not thinking (only) in national categories, because nations are a rather recent historical construct. I do think in terms of specificity, since this helps making distinctions, understanding things better. Calling everyone "one and the same" doesn't help understanding anything at all, on the contrary, it creates confusion, because then you can't explain differences in terms of outcomes (like why did the British develop a language that is spoken from the top of the teeth and tongue, using lots of voiceless dental fricatives, compared to Mediterranean people who tend to have a very different phonemic profile).
Mankind is actually a lot weirder than we commonly think. Anthropology is starting to see a much more complicated picture of how this species emerged from multiple regional, local branches that each had their own specific traits. This provides us with much more explanatory value than these stories of "oneness" and similarity.

[Dolan]

Show hidden quotes

No, the issue is: what's the problem with having negative opinions about certain categories of people and expressing that?

This here is our main point. You categorize people based on arbitrary characteristics such as skin color. Categorizing people in general is bad, since you will always put people into categories who do not belong there.
The word Nigger does not only relate to the skin color but also to the social status of a subhuman being whose only meaningful purpose can be to serve its masters. It is simply the word that slave owners used to describe* their property.
*and justify

I don't categorise anything, these things have been categorised way before I was even born. As far as using labels, I'll repeat the point I made before but nobody bothered to reply to. If black people didn't like this label, why would they use it among themselves?

Why are you talking about "black people"? Why don't you say americans? Because they are pretty much all americans, and a swedish guy. You will barely if ever hear this in South America, Africa, India, Australian outback, Bangladesh, etc. It's not even anglo-saxon, it's very rare in the UK. And if you do hear it, it's mostly because they listened to American rap and lots of people just copy what they hear (in music) without thinking. Hey '39, sounds familiar?

I agree. I should have specified that this is common among American black people, not so much elsewhere.
Actually it would be interesting to see if black people outside the US find this word offensive or not. Or if they just find it neutral, because it doesn't have any historical connotations for them (especially those that haven't been colonised by Anglos).

And why it's used, I already answered that question. You conveniently ignore it because you don't want to hear any explanation that doesn't conform to the conclusion you've already drawn. So don't pretend like you're here for a discussion.

It's possible I may have missed this reply. If you have a link to it, you can post it and I'll take a look at it.

[gibson]

Aren’t you guys tired of beating this dead horse? Multiple people have explained multiple times in multiple different ways that when you call a black person a nigger you are saying they’re subhuman and calling back to a time( and there are still ongoing issues today) when they were treated like literal dog shit and yet someone in this thread either has a mental block or just genuinely doesn’t understand why someone wouldn’t want to be treated as a subhuman based on an arbitrary characteristic. You aren’t gonna change his mind so just give up.

[Amsel_]

With the approval of the President of ESOC University and the Board of Trustees, I hereby declare this, class of 2019, holders of a masters of arts in shitposting and grant them all the privileges that come therewith. Please walk to claim your official N-Word Pass, accredited by the NAACP.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw-_Ew5bVxs

[Riotcoke]

https://youtu.be/vpEWpK_Dl7M
This version is better

[Dolan]

Aren’t you guys tired of beating this dead horse? Multiple people have explained multiple times in multiple different ways that when you call a black person a nigger you are saying they’re subhuman and calling back to a time( and there are still ongoing issues today) when they were treated like literal dog shit and yet someone in this thread either has a mental block or just genuinely doesn’t understand why someone wouldn’t want to be treated as a subhuman based on an arbitrary characteristic. You aren’t gonna change his mind so just give up.

Dude, why do some black people in the USA call each other "nigger"? If it's such a demeaning and offensive name, why use it?

I get that this is a sensitive issue in the USA, given the country's dark past with slavery, but I don't think that's a relevant argument. My ancestors were also enslaved by Ottomans centuries ago and they were called different names, but I wouldn't get offended if some Turk today called me a "Wallachian" (or "iflak" or whatever they called us back then). So what, that history is long gone. Sure, we may mistrust Turks today because of historical issues but we don't really give a shit about what they would call us today. They just don't have any power over us anymore. So, you know, it would be just a word.

[gibson]

Aren’t you guys tired of beating this dead horse? Multiple people have explained multiple times in multiple different ways that when you call a black person a nigger you are saying they’re subhuman and calling back to a time( and there are still ongoing issues today) when they were treated like literal dog shit and yet someone in this thread either has a mental block or just genuinely doesn’t understand why someone wouldn’t want to be treated as a subhuman based on an arbitrary characteristic. You aren’t gonna change his mind so just give up.

Dude, why do some black people in the USA call each other "nigger"? If it's such a demeaning and offensive name, why use it?

I get that this is a sensitive issue in the USA, given the country's dark past with slavery, but I don't think that's a relevant argument. My ancestors were also enslaved by Ottomans centuries ago and they were called different names, but I wouldn't get offended if some Turk today called me a "Wallachian" (or "iflak" or whatever they called us back then). So what, that history is long gone. Sure, we may mistrust Turks today because of historical issues but we don't really give a shit about what they would call us today. They just don't have any power over us anymore. So, you know, it would be just a word.

it is not a common thing for a black person to call another black person a nigger and when it happens it’s almost just as insulting as when a non black person does it. If it was purely in the past it would be much less of a big deal but it’s not in the past, the fact that it is a big deal should tell you that racism is still a huge issue in the United States. Any black person( at least who lives in the south)you talk to even in my generation will tell you they are regularly still looked at with suspicion and often discriminated against or treated as 2nd class citizens and the older generations will tell you about segregated bathrooms and lunch mobs. I’ve observed it happening to the black people in my workplace on a semi regular basis. Anything from comments about how a black coworker isn’t as smart and can’t be expected to be to a black coworker looks like a monkey. Again I find it odd that you feel so offended when told you shouldn’t use the word. Also since you know that black people get offended by that word, maybe do the human thing and just accept that instead of trying to argue why it shouldn’t be offensive in a culture situation you don’t know jack shit about. I don’t try to speak about Romanian or East European culture because it’s not my place so why are you trying to argue that something in American culture that is universally, by everyone, considered to be offensive, isn’t? That's ignorant and moronic of you to do. Before I visited France I was told many french waiters found it rude to be tipped by Americans( no idea if this is actually true btw, its just what I was told). So guess what, even though it made no sense to me I respected their culture and didn't tip(although that could have been complete bullshit, but whether or not its true isnt the point). So even if you don't understand why someone is offended by something, dont be such an arrogant fuck and act like you know more about their situation than them.

[princeofcarthage]

With the approval of the President of ESOC University and the Board of Trustees, I hereby declare this, class of 2019, holders of a masters of arts in shitposting and grant them all the privileges that come therewith. Please walk to claim your official N-Word Pass, accredited by the NAACP.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw-_Ew5bVxs

Underrated and underliked post of the year

[Dolan]

it is not a common thing for a black person to call another black person a nigger and when it happens it’s almost just as insulting as when a non black person does it. If it was purely in the past it would be much less of a big deal but it’s not in the past, the fact that it is a big deal should tell you that racism is still a huge issue in the United States. Any black person( at least who lives in the south)you talk to even in my generation will tell you they are regularly still looked at with suspicion and often discriminated against or treated as 2nd class citizens and the older generations will tell you about segregated bathrooms and lunch mobs. I’ve observed it happening to the black people in my workplace on a semi regular basis. Anything from comments about how a black coworker isn’t as smart and can’t be expected to be to a black coworker looks like a monkey. Again I find it odd that you feel so offended when told you shouldn’t use the word. Also since you know that black people get offended by that word, maybe do the human thing and just accept that instead of trying to argue why it shouldn’t be offensive in a culture situation you don’t know jack shit about. I don’t try to speak about Romanian or East European culture because it’s not my place so why are you trying to argue that something in American culture that is universally, by everyone, considered to be offensive, isn’t? That's ignorant and moronic of you to do. Before I visited France I was told many french waiters found it rude to be tipped by Americans( no idea if this is actually true btw, its just what I was told). So guess what, even though it made no sense to me I respected their culture and didn't tip(although that could have been complete bullshit, but whether or not its true isnt the point). So even if you don't understand why someone is offended by something, dont be such an arrogant fuck and act like you know more about their situation than them.

If you find something offensive then it means you have a weak spot. I don't find anything offensive, you can call me anything you like.

This is why I don't understand how this works in American culture. If black people have this weak spot, then why do many of them display this proud, uber-masculine attitude in the media, videos, hiphop, etc. I mean, that's why so many kids listen to rap and hiphop, because that kind of attitude is what they're missing. It gives them something to build on, some foundation for self-confidence. A war cry. Makes them look aggressive, when they would otherwise look limp and nerdy.

Well anyway, I'm trying to get down to the psychology behind what makes this offensive. And so far I haven't heard any convincing arguments. I mean, for example, Jewish people have been systematically discriminated, exterminated, etc. If you were accused of being Jewish during Nazism, you could have gotten in big trouble. And yet, if you call someone Jewish today they don't take it as an offence. Even though Nazis considered them subhuman (they considered Polish people to be subhuman too, Slavs in general), so calling someone a Jew during Nazism was pretty much calling them subhuman. And yet, they don't consider this an offensive name today. So there are definitely different psychological forces at play here than what the common explanation says.

[Cometk]

good god

[duckzilla]

This is why I don't understand how this works in American culture. If black people have this weak spot, then why do many of them display this proud, uber-masculine attitude in the media, videos, hiphop, etc. I mean, that's why so many kids listen to rap and hiphop, because that kind of attitude is what they're missing. It gives them something to build on, some foundation for self-confidence. A war cry. Makes them look aggressive, when they would otherwise look limp and nerdy.

Have you never thought about the possibility that it is weak spots which makes people behave uber-masculine? That's how (some) turkish germans behave in their youth to find some place in society which cannot be taken from them. It is why they defend it with their fists if they are getting challenged. It gives a level of security to an otherwise insecure person.

[occamslightsaber]

If you find something offensive then it means you have a weak spot. I don't find anything offensive, you can call me anything you like.

This is why I don't understand how this works in American culture. If black people have this weak spot, then why do many of them display this proud, uber-masculine attitude in the media, videos, hiphop, etc. I mean, that's why so many kids listen to rap and hiphop, because that kind of attitude is what they're missing. It gives them something to build on, some foundation for self-confidence. A war cry. Makes them look aggressive, when they would otherwise look limp and nerdy.

Well anyway, I'm trying to get down to the psychology behind what makes this offensive. And so far I haven't heard any convincing arguments. I mean, for example, Jewish people have been systematically discriminated, exterminated, etc. If you were accused of being Jewish during Nazism, you could have gotten in big trouble. And yet, if you call someone Jewish today they don't take it as an offence. Even though Nazis considered them subhuman (they considered Polish people to be subhuman too, Slavs in general), so calling someone a Jew during Nazism was pretty much calling them subhuman. And yet, they don't consider this an offensive name today. So there are definitely different psychological forces at play here than what the common explanation says.

Hmm... You are not the only person to wonder why black Americans call each other “nigger” when it can be so offensive. I still think it would be better for everyone if we just let the word die out, like we did with so many ethnic and racial slurs.

However, it logically makes sense that when a black person calls another black person a “nigger”, the word loses all of its offensive meaning. Because a rational person would never seriously disparage another person AND oneself for something they were born with/as, it is assumed that the use of the word is innocuous. At best, it is a self-deprecating joke and at worst, it is ironic and the black guy who said it is proving himself to be a self-hating moron.

On the other hand, when anyone who isn’t black calls a black person a “nigger”, there is always a sense of ambiguity, even in the lightest of circumstances. May be it was well-intentioned and just trying to be friendly, may be it was meant to be offensive and the person who said it is secretly racist; we’d never know unless we invent an actual truth serum. Such ambiguity can make a black person very uneasy about the person who said it, which is why it is best for anyone who isn’t black to avoid the word entirely. Anyway, that’s just my take on the N word.

The Jewish example you gave is a case of false equivalence though. Unlike the N word, a “Jew” is a correct way to refer to a person of Jewish heritage and it is how Jewish people want to be referred as even now, according to my theology professor who is Jewish herself and whose daughter is a rabbi. Sure, it was dangerous to be called a Jew in Nazi Germany and people still may say it to hurt feelings by invoking negative Jewish stereotypes, but it is technically a neutral term and has been so for a long time. Saying “you are a Jew” isn’t all that different from “you are Asian/black/white”.

[Dolan]

This is why I don't understand how this works in American culture. If black people have this weak spot, then why do many of them display this proud, uber-masculine attitude in the media, videos, hiphop, etc. I mean, that's why so many kids listen to rap and hiphop, because that kind of attitude is what they're missing. It gives them something to build on, some foundation for self-confidence. A war cry. Makes them look aggressive, when they would otherwise look limp and nerdy.

Have you never thought about the possibility that it is weak spots which makes people behave uber-masculine? That's how (some) turkish germans behave in their youth to find some place in society which cannot be taken from them. It is why they defend it with their fists if they are getting challenged. It gives a level of security to an otherwise insecure person.

Yeah, we kinda have a similar problem with gypsies. But that's because they refuse to integrate by enrolling in education and staying in school as long as possible. Why don't German Turks do this? It's not like anyone prevents them from just picking a pathway to improving their social standing and sticking to it. Could it be because in their families they are still taught certain cultural notions that conflict with German social norms? Like how they should treat women, what kind of role a guy should play in society, family, etc. I think it might be their fault too, at least partly. As far as I know, German society tends to give you a fair chance at success, as long as you stick to a path and are consistent.
But if you like being a bad boy coz you think it's gonna make you look kewl, of course you're going to confirm some ethnic stereotypes and end up working in a kebab shop.

[duckzilla]

Have you never thought about the possibility that it is weak spots which makes people behave uber-masculine? That's how (some) turkish germans behave in their youth to find some place in society which cannot be taken from them. It is why they defend it with their fists if they are getting challenged. It gives a level of security to an otherwise insecure person.

Yeah, we kinda have a similar problem with gypsies. But that's because they refuse to integrate by enrolling in education and staying in school as long as possible. Why don't German Turks do this? It's not like anyone prevents them from just picking a pathway to improving their social standing and sticking to it. Could it be because in their families they are still taught certain cultural notions that conflict with German social norms? Like how they should treat women, what kind of role a guy should play in society, family, etc. I think it might be their fault too, at least partly. As far as I know, German society tends to give you a fair chance at success, as long as you stick to a path and are consistent.
But if you like being a bad boy coz you think it's gonna make you look kewl, of course you're going to confirm some ethnic stereotypes and end up working in a kebab.

You seem to think that young boys and adolescents are able to deeply reflect on their role in society and potential future pathways. This is generally not the case. Even for usual Germans having a worker family background it is difficult to resist the well intentioned suggestions from the family to drop out of school early to find an "honest" job. Having a migration background or being from a minority that is generally looked down upon (Sinti/Roma) does not make this easier.

Calling people by pejorative names (e.g. gypsies) is nothing but persistently saying "You don't belong here". This again does not help integration. So if you want people to integrate, you should maybe stop insulting them whenever you meet them.

[Dolan]

Hmm... You are not the only person to wonder why black Americans call each other “nigger” when it can be so offensive. I still think it would be better for everyone if we just let the word die out, like we did with so many ethnic and racial slurs.

Hm, I'm not sure forgetting is a good way of coping. It's always going to haunt you and you'll have to always make sure you keep your guard up, in case it comes up. I think acceptance is a better one. Black people should just accept the "nigger" word and move on, stop being offended by a word that essentially means nothing but some way in which they were classified by white colonists and explorers in the past. At least, that's just my opinion, I think it'd be more effective.

However, it logically makes sense that when a black person calls another black person a “nigger”, the word loses all of its offensive meaning. Because a rational person would never seriously disparage another person AND oneself for something they were born with/as, it is assumed that the use of the word is innocuous. At best, it is a self-deprecating joke and at worst, it is ironic and the black guy who said it is proving himself to be a self-hating moron.

OK, now we're getting somewhere. Self-deprecation, in-joke, irony. But then that doesn't help you build a sense of self-respect if you keep having a low opinion on yourself.

The Jewish example you gave is a case of false equivalence though. Unlike the N word, a “Jew” is a correct way to refer to a person of Jewish heritage and it is how Jewish people want to be referred as even now, according to my theology professor who is Jewish herself and whose daughter is a rabbi. Sure, it was dangerous to be called a Jew in Nazi Germany and people still may say it to hurt feelings by invoking negative Jewish stereotypes, but it is technically a neutral term and has been so for a long time. Saying “you are a Jew” isn’t all that different from “you are Asian/black/white”.

"Jude" was definitely a racial slur during Nazi Germany, they used to mark their shops and synagogues with it. You were a social outcast if you were marked with the David star back then. The main difference with the "nigger" case is probably that the "Jewish" demonym existed before it was given that negative connotation by Nazis, so their addition didn't stick, it only lasted a few years until the regime was removed from power. It might also be because "Jewish" (or "Jude") was actually the translation of the Jews' actual endonym (the name used by a people to call themselves) from the Hebraic "Yehudim". While "nigger" is not an endonym, it couldn't even have been one, since black people from the USA came from many different countries.

[Dolan]

Calling people by pejorative names (e.g. gypsies) is nothing but persistently saying "You don't belong here". This again does not help integration. So if you want people to integrate, you should maybe stop insulting them whenever you meet them.

Lol, whether you use this word or another doesn't make any difference. They still choose to live in their closed-in communities, marry their children when they're 13 to make sure they won't leave the community and refuse to send them to school. So it's not that society rejects their integration, they reject integration by holding on to their nomadic culture. They were given jobs, free housing, welfare, they keep holding steadfastly to their old ways.

The "gypsy" ethnonym doesn't really mean anything offensive, it's based on the perception that they were of Egyptian origin. Unless you think having an Egyptian origin could have been associated with anything offensive.

[gibson]

The point isnt that the word itself is such a terrible thing. A word is just a word. The point is that in the past the word was used by people who were in positions of power over them. So much power that they could own them, beat them, even kill them without consequence. It was used in a time when a white man could lynch a black man and his only fear would be that the black man's owner would come after him for the value of the black man. So if you can't understand why "psychologically" someone wouldn't want to be called that, you're the same kind of "psychologist" who wouldn't understand why a woman wouldn't want to be called a pet name that her abuser had called her for years. The exact same reason why anyone finds anything to be offensive.

[Cometk]

You don’t get it, getting offended is just weakness. Not a quintessential response to being disrespected or having your boundaries crossed.

[fightinfrenchman]

Come on, there are so many good threads we could be posting in instead of whining that we can't say the n-word

[duckzilla]

Lol, whether you use this word or another doesn't make any difference. They still choose to live in their closed-in communities, marry their children when they're 13 to make sure they won't leave the community and refuse to send them to school. So it's not that society rejects their integration, they reject integration by holding on to their nomadic culture. They were given jobs, free housing, welfare, they keep holding steadfastly to their old ways.

By using pejorative names you show the young generations of Sinti/Roma that society despises them due to their social background. You shut the doors before the people can go through them.

Your attitude towards them seems to be dominated by usual majority vs minority thinking. The lack of empathy towards this social group is closing the vicious circle these people are in.

[gibson]

You don’t get it, getting offended is just weakness. Not a quintessential response to being disrespected or having your boundaries crossed.

Yes, thinking that getting offended is weakness is the exact kind of response you would expect from someone who spends most of their time on the internet. Gamer culture thinks of offense as an overweight unattractive lesbian with pink hair screaming whenever someone doesn't refer to them with a plural pronoun. In reality getting offended is exactly what Trevor said, and it doesn't result in "being offended", it results in anger because someone has crossed a boundary. It's always funny when people say, "nothing offends me", on the internet this might be true, but face to face everyone has things, whether they be verbal or physical, that will anger them. And that's really what this is about. Nobody cares about the 15 year old kids in a csgo lobby screaming nigger. Would it be better if they didn't? I guess. Are the contributing to the dehumanizing of a minority? Not really.