Re: How To Say

[fightinfrenchman]

Words can cause violence in literally every country in the world

[Cometk]

I used the expression to imply that a country in which you can get to violence just for saying a word can't be a civilised country.

I think an outgroup someone who has the inclination to call a black person a nigger isn’t a civilized person

[Dolan]

@Dolan i don't really have the time nor energy to explain further, but this should be sufficient: life will be much easier and better for everyone involved when you don't call a black person a nigger

if you tried calling somebody that "physical characteristic" in america guarantee you'd leave with a few missing teeth

Well then the USA is a third world country if you get that sort of reaction for just saying a word.
Or Americans are just too sensitive, idk.

nah mate you just refuse to empathize here. you stated earlier how you were discriminated against because you were romanian - that's fucking horrible that that happened to you. just because you might be a resilient person doesn't mean that the prejudiced actions against you are justified, or that they aren't a big deal...

Empathise with what? Something that happened centuries ago? Should something that happened centuries ago limit the way we talk today?

I didn't feel offended by the treatment I got in Belgium. I just took it as a fact of life, I realised that this negative image that Romanians had was probably the result of the way gypsies from Romania behaved abroad. Also Romanian hackers who used to be famous for credit card fraud schemes. You could say it was unfair that I would have to support the consequences of what some of my co-nationals did, but it wasn't that much of a big deal. To some extent, I understand why Romanians have such a negative image abroad, because many of them did abuse welfare systems and such. And people don't see the silent majority that minds its own business abroad, they only notice the bad seeds, which the media love to exploit in their daily search for sensational news (eg, the Sun).

[fightinfrenchman]

If you think racism is something that happened centuries ago, you're dumb

[Dolan]

I used the expression to imply that a country in which you can get to violence just for saying a word can't be a civilised country.

I think someone who has the inclination to call a black person a nigger isn’t a civilized person

Then why do some blacks call each other that way? I know the standard explanation (internalised discrimination etc), but it makes no sense. If you find a word offensive you don't identify with it.

I've seen a similar situation with gays. It's considered offensive to call someone a faggot, but I once read a gay guy's blog and he was calling another gay guy a "bitch". I guess he didn't show much empathy for the other gay guy, huh.

[Dolan]

If you think racism is something that happened centuries ago, you're dumb

You didn't understand, you're thinking circularly.

They argued that it's offensive to use certain words because those people associate the word with slavery, exploitation, etc, stuff that happened back in history.

If you think I'm talking about racism, you're dumb. I don't even care much about the subject. I'm talking about why should certain words be considered taboo, when it's no longer the case that those terrible things from the past would be reinstated. We're past that.

[fightinfrenchman]

It's also tied to other forms of racism, which still exist

[Cometk]

Why would you ever use the word nigger except to express racial disdain? Racism, and the use of the word nigger as a racial slur to express hatred, isn't something from "centuries ago" - it's ongoing.

[Dolan]

It's also tied to other forms of racism, which still exist

Well, if someone refuses to hire you on the wrong grounds (ethnicity, body type, opinions), that should be (and normally is) legally actionable.

Actions should be punishable, not opinions, words, etc.

[Cometk]

@Dolan Do you think we should move past the meaning of the word "Gook", and just call any Asian-looking person Gook from now on? I mean, that term was only racist during the 50s and 60s when the Korean and Vietnam Wars were ongoing, right? It shouldn't be racist any more, because those wars are clearly over!

My question for you is, why would you intentionally ever use that word to reference someone else?

[fightinfrenchman]

It's also tied to other forms of racism, which still exist

Well, if someone refuses to hire you on the wrong grounds (ethnicity, body type, opinions), that should be (and normally is) legally actionable.

Actions should be punishable, not opinions, words, etc.

Ah, nevermind then. Racism is indeed over

[Dolan]

Why would you ever use the word nigger except to express racial disdain? Racism, and the use of the word nigger as a racial slur to express hatred, isn't something from "centuries ago" - it's ongoing.

What's the problem with expressing any kind of disdain? I mean, it's already fair game to express disdain for someone's political affiliations or opinions. And for most people that's probably something unchangeable.

[Cometk]

"What's the problem with being racist?"

Alright I'm out

[fightinfrenchman]

Why would you ever use the word nigger except to express racial disdain? Racism, and the use of the word nigger as a racial slur to express hatred, isn't something from "centuries ago" - it's ongoing.

What's the problem with expressing any kind of disdain? I mean, it's already fair game to express disdain for someone's political affiliations or opinions. And for most people that's probably something unchangeable.

Your opinions might be unchangeable, but that's not true for most people

[Dolan]

@Dolan Do you think we should move past the meaning of the word "Gook", and just call any Asian-looking person Gook from now on? I mean, that term was only racist during the 50s and 60s when the Korean and Vietnam War were ongoing, right? It shouldn't be racist any more, because those wars are clearly over!

My question for you is, why would you intentionally ever use that word to reference someone else?

Look, why someone uses a word shouldn't need justifications, because using certain words shouldn't be a legal offence (unless it's a false accusation or something that has legal implications).

There could be all sorts of reasons why someone would use those words: as a joke, to vent their frustration in a certain context, in a song, fuck knows.

[Dolan]

"What's the problem with being racist?"

Alright I'm out

No, the issue is: what's the problem with having negative opinions about certain categories of people and expressing that?

The only situation in which this would have serious consequences was if someone actually did something, like refused to hire someone based on racial reasons. That would be unfair, indeed, and should be legally actionable.

But I don't see anything seriously wrong with people having whatever opinions, however controversial.

[fightinfrenchman]

Nobody has mentioned legality

[Cometk]

What’s wrong with the Ku Klux Klan? It’s just a bunch of guys having some opinions

[Dolan]

@fightinfrenchman
Yeah, I brought it up because that's the only situation in which racism can have real, serious consequences. When someone's actions lead to some serious real consequence (like not getting a job because they're discriminated).

But if whatever someone says doesn't really have any legal implications, I don't see the problem.

[Dolan]

What’s wrong with the Ku Klux Klan? It’s just a bunch of guys having some opinions

Lol, KKK also killed people, right? If they were just a bunch of larpers who organised costumed parties, then they would have been pretty much like participants in a cosplay event.

[Amsel_]

[spoiler=Press to turn the page]Sup niggers, what are you bitching about now?[/spoiler]

[fightinfrenchman]

@fightinfrenchman
Yeah, I brought it up because that's the only situation in which racism can have real, serious consequences. When someone's actions lead to some serious real consequence (like not getting a job because they're discriminated).

But if whatever someone says doesn't really have any legal implications, I don't see the problem.

Racism can have serious consequences in many other situations, actually

[occamslightsaber]

Yeah, exactly. This racism theme is something that was born in American culture, or more specifically in Anglo culture. We surely don't give shit about this in Eastern Europe.

Wait, racism isn’t a problem in the Balkans? I thought everyone hated one another there.

Also I thought only the Romani were called gypsies, not Romanians.

[duckzilla]

No, the issue is: what's the problem with having negative opinions about certain categories of people and expressing that?

This here is our main point. You categorize people based on arbitrary characteristics such as skin color. Categorizing people in general is bad, since you will always put people into categories who do not belong there.

The word Nigger does not only relate to the skin color but also to the social status of a subhuman being whose only meaningful purpose can be to serve its masters. It is simply the word that slave owners used to describe* their property.


*and justify

[fightinfrenchman]

No, the issue is: what's the problem with having negative opinions about certain categories of people and expressing that?

This here is our main point. You categorize people based on arbitrary characteristics such as skin color. Categorizing people in general is bad, since you will always put people into categories who do not belong there.

The word Nigger does not only relate to the skin color but also to the social status of a subhuman being whose only meaningful purpose can be to serve its masters. It is simply the word that slave owners used to describe their property.

How would Stacey describe me, Gustav, and cheadar?