This really "says it all"Jotunir wrote: I disagree with your "historical facts".
Freetalk Friday 1
- fightinfrenchman
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Not really, what I meant was: I disagree with your SO-CALLED "historical facts".fightinfrenchman wrote:This really "says it all"Jotunir wrote: I disagree with your "historical facts".
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Nothing I said wasn't a fact. He had a bastard child and was removed from being a governor due to brutality. Those are simply historical facts.
- princeofcarthage
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Having a bastard child was pretty normal for the era.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
I don't know him well enough to say if he was good and pious, but most of the crimes attributed to him seem completely made up.Jotunir wrote:Thank you for the interesting video, there are many SJW nowdays that actively try to discredit Columbus. He was a good and pious man, his men not so much.
Debunking “Top 5 Atrocities Committed by Christopher Columbus”
When Columbus returned to Hispaniola, for his third voyage, he found it in mutiny and revolt. Several Spanish political rivals tried to take over, but failed. They succeeded when they falsely accused Columbus as a cruel man toward both Spaniards and natives. They arrested Columbus without due process, and took the governorship upon themselves. When the king and queen heard about it, they immediately set Columbus free because they did not believe the accusations. In their own way, the king and queen apologized to him. They also arrested those who arrested Columbus first, for mutiny, and the temporal slavery on Hispaniola was suspended. As for Columbus, his titles were restored and he made one more voyage. Source: The Life of the Admiral by Ferdinand Columbus, Chapters 74-87
Zinn’s quote above, who in turn was quoting from Fray Las Casas, belongs to the timeline when the mutineers took over Hispaniola causing all sorts of trouble to the natives. Columbus himself reported to the queen the very same things Las Casas complained about. Las Casas did not believe the accusations that cost Columbus the governorship either. Las Casas even said that even if the accusations were true (that Columbus was cruel toward the Spaniards), then they deserved it, since they were the ones committing all sorts of atrocities. Source: Historia de las Indias by Las Casas, Libro I, Tomo II, Capítulo CLXXXIII, pp. 513-514.
After Columbus finished his fourth and last voyage, this time exploring Central and South America, he made a last stop on Hispaniola (before he returned to Spain) and noticed that many natives had died. He wrote (again) complaining about how they were mistreated under the Nicolas de Ovando administration. Source: Historia de las Indias by Las Casas, Tomo III, Lib. II, Cap. XXXVII, p. 190.
The reason why some Spaniards behaved so badly was because they were far away from Spain, where no one could see what they were doing. Source: De Orbe Novo by Peter Martyr, Vol. Two, Book IV, p. 272.
As long as Columbus was alive and in charge, he would punish them, arrest them or report them.
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Spanish soldier: *rapes and kills random natives*
Columbus: *cuts off soldier's hands*
21st-century leftists for some reason: oh no, look how cruel Columbus was!!
Columbus: *cuts off soldier's hands*
21st-century leftists for some reason: oh no, look how cruel Columbus was!!
- fightinfrenchman
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Can you think of a reason that people in the 21st century would be talking about Christopher Columbuslejend wrote:
21st-century leftists for some reason
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Anti-Italian discrimination.fightinfrenchman wrote:Can you think of a reason that people in the 21st century would be talking about Christopher Columbuslejend wrote:
21st-century leftists for some reason
- fightinfrenchman
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
No that's not it. Try againlejend wrote:
Anti-Italian discrimination.
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
- fightinfrenchman
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
It was good for my country's finances, though. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the life that I'm living if my ancestors hadn't slaughtered tens of millions of people. It is a trade-off.Cometk wrote:yeah i don't think the genocide of millions of indigenous folk was "good for america"
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Brambitch we call yeMr_Bramboy wrote:It was good for my country's finances, though. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the life that I'm living if my ancestors hadn't slaughtered tens of millions of people. It is a trade-off.Cometk wrote:yeah i don't think the genocide of millions of indigenous folk was "good for america"
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
- princeofcarthage
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
I mean it was good for the current generation of Americans tooMr_Bramboy wrote:It was good for my country's finances, though. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the life that I'm living if my ancestors hadn't slaughtered tens of millions of people. It is a trade-off.Cometk wrote:yeah i don't think the genocide of millions of indigenous folk was "good for america"
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
imagine thinking exploitation is necessary for the industrial production of society to be realized
- fightinfrenchman
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Nothing wrong with exploiting Alt+DCometk wrote:imagine thinking exploitation is necessary for the industrial production of society to be realized
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
- princeofcarthage
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Unfortunately that is the reality, and fact around the world. Preceding colonial events are a necessity for US to be in today's position. Take that out of equation and you probably be fighting with bows and arrows/imported European weapons. China rapidly industrialized based on exploitation and so did Europe, Russia, and America. Africa, India, Brazil are far less industrialized in comparison. Average citizen and by definition the majority are simply too stupid and wayward to see the long term benefits. You can't have progress without sacrifice and often that is in blood.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
- harcha
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
this fits in the paragraph but is not true, it's a terrible justificationprinceofcarthage wrote:You can't have progress without sacrifice and often that is in blood.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
- Mr_Bramboy
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Maybe not necessary but it does speed the whole process up.Cometk wrote:imagine thinking exploitation is necessary for the industrial production of society to be realized
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
let’s Move On
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
- harcha
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
does this guy look like callen or is it just me
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
About 780 years ago, Mongols invaded a territory now part of Romania and killed about half the population (my ancestors) and razed any sign of civilisation off the map. They built an empire of about 100 millions subjects, spanning from Eastern Europe to the Sea of Japan, the largest contiguous empire ever.princeofcarthage wrote:Unfortunately that is the reality, and fact around the world. Preceding colonial events are a necessity for US to be in today's position. Take that out of equation and you probably be fighting with bows and arrows/imported European weapons. China rapidly industrialized based on exploitation and so did Europe, Russia, and America. Africa, India, Brazil are far less industrialized in comparison. Average citizen and by definition the majority are simply too stupid and wayward to see the long term benefits. You can't have progress without sacrifice and often that is in blood.
Today Mongolia is just a little puppy compared to its past, a country of 3 million people with a GDP of $13.7bn. For comparison, Romania's capital, Bucharest, has a population of 2 million and an economic output of almost $60bn. And that's considering Romania is one of the poorest countries in Europe. Our capital and a few cities = the entire population of Mongolia and produce 5 times its GDP. That's the fate of empires in history.
Now the question is who's the next empire to turn into a complete irrelevance
- princeofcarthage
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Re: Freetalk Friday 1
It's not a terrible justification. History is littered with examples.harcha wrote:this fits in the paragraph but is not true, it's a terrible justificationprinceofcarthage wrote:You can't have progress without sacrifice and often that is in blood.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Just spent a full week w/o alcohol ending today with a midday IPA
Not sure when the last time was when I went this long
Not sure when the last time was when I went this long
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Alcohol is a toxin. You shouldn't drink it. It's an advice, of course the choice is yours.
Re: Freetalk Friday 1
Wish I realised this when I was in high school and drank more vodka than water for a couple of years
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