Classical music

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Greece BrookG
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Re: Classical music

Post by BrookG »

Dolan wrote:
BrookG wrote:It's really destructive to dismiss the 50% of a masterpiece. (referring to the orchestral part) You clearly don't know the content, I suggest you to study the full score.
How many people are able to hear or distinguish the violin or trumpet parts in the Requiem?
You need a trained ear to hear them and that's not just because most people are laymen in terms of music performance, but also because it's hard to hear them when the vocals take center stage. If Mozart really wanted to put instrumental parts on the spot, he would have made the choir stay silent more often throughout the mass and let the instruments shine.
That is a big debate on the auditory perception. I am certain that people can hear the details. Now they might be unable to pinpoint what it is they hear or readily name it.
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

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Greece BrookG
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Re: Classical music

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If you are looking for orchestral parts that stand out, check Recordare http://imslp.eu/files/imglnks/euimg/1/1 ... ordare.pdf and here is the Mozartean manuscript. http://ks4.imslp.net/files/imglnks/usim ... gment-.pdf
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Classical music

Post by Goodspeed »

@BrookG Any favorites to recommend?
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Classical music

Post by Dolan »

@BrookG If you look at the manuscript you posted, it ends with Hostias. That's the 10th movement out of 14. Then why do you say "Fun fact: Mozart didn't write his requiem. A student of his completed the largest part of the work." when the manuscript shows he wrote vocal and orchestral parts for most of the mass?
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Classical music

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Goodspeed wrote:@BrookG Any favorites to recommend?
I will not recommend super famous works. From symphonic works I love Dvorak's 9th Symphony. I am a big fan of the Sibelius, definitely check his Violin Concerto, Tapiola, and Symphonies No. 2 and 7. From chamber music, look up Brahms Clarinet trio and Shostakovich's Piano Trios and String Quartet no. 8. Some solo pieces worth a listen are Bach's Cello Suites, Beethoven's Sonata no.8 (pathetique) as well as his 3 late ones. Vocal works I can recommend are the 8 Folksongs from Dodecanese by a greek composer named G. Konstantinides, and some more famous for example Brahms' op.74 or Magnum Mysterium by Tomas Luis de Victoria, Moro Lasso by Carlo Gesualdo and Missa Papae Marcelli by Palestrina.
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Classical music

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Dolan wrote:@BrookG If you look at the manuscript you posted, it ends with Hostias. That's the 10th movement out of 14. Then why do you say "Fun fact: Mozart didn't write his requiem. A student of his completed the largest part of the work." when the manuscript shows he wrote vocal and orchestral parts for most of the mass?
the score is incomplete in several movements
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Re: Classical music

Post by RefluxSemantic »

BrookG wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:
Show hidden quotes
I think its the most fun when you listen to something new or fresh.

Pop music is made to be fun after listening to it a lot, hearing it all over the radio and memorizing the lyrics. I recall they did a research where they found that if people hear a pop song often enough they will end up liking it. Producers just buy playtime at radios to force a song to be a hit.

Classical music to me is the opposite. The first few times you listen to it are the best. The more you listen to it, the more that exciting twist becomes dull and (obviously) predictable. You get used to it and it effectively turns into pop music.

The unfortunate thing is that youtube prefers suggesting the already well known stuff.
You are describing the mere exposure effect. It applies to practically anything. However, there is a limit to that. Too much exposure will result into boredom and lack of novelty. Discovering new unexpected elements in music plays a big role in pleasure.
Yet pop music doesn't contain many unexpected elements It's very simple actually. I read a research somewhere (I can't find it, sorry) where they basically found that people tend to enjoy music more due to being familiar with it. When I go to a club and hear another pop song that I've never heard before, I can hum along and predict the notes with some accuracy. It's very boring to me. In classical music however the sky is the limit. I especially enjoy more modern classical songs, where there aren't many generic things at all. I like that each note is a little surprise. Classical music is a genre very well suited for that.
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Classical music

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RefluxSemantic wrote:
BrookG wrote:
Show hidden quotes
You are describing the mere exposure effect. It applies to practically anything. However, there is a limit to that. Too much exposure will result into boredom and lack of novelty. Discovering new unexpected elements in music plays a big role in pleasure.
Yet pop music doesn't contain many unexpected elements It's very simple actually. I read a research somewhere (I can't find it, sorry) where they basically found that people tend to enjoy music more due to being familiar with it. When I go to a club and hear another pop song that I've never heard before, I can hum along and predict the notes with some accuracy. It's very boring to me. In classical music however the sky is the limit. I especially enjoy more modern classical songs, where there aren't many generic things at all. I like that each note is a little surprise. Classical music is a genre very well suited for that.
Classical music doesn't get enough exposure, so it's harder for the broader audience to be casually attracted to it. You don't have as similar musics
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Classical music

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BrookG wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:@BrookG Any favorites to recommend?
I will not recommend super famous works. From symphonic works I love Dvorak's 9th Symphony. I am a big fan of the Sibelius, definitely check his Violin Concerto, Tapiola, and Symphonies No. 2 and 7. From chamber music, look up Brahms Clarinet trio and Shostakovich's Piano Trios and String Quartet no. 8. Some solo pieces worth a listen are Bach's Cello Suites, Beethoven's Sonata no.8 (pathetique) as well as his 3 late ones. Vocal works I can recommend are the 8 Folksongs from Dodecanese by a greek composer named G. Konstantinides, and some more famous for example Brahms' op.74 or Magnum Mysterium by Tomas Luis de Victoria, Moro Lasso by Carlo Gesualdo and Missa Papae Marcelli by Palestrina.
Still curious as to what your favorite "super famous works" are.
Also, interestingly, the start of the third movement of Dvorak's 9th is pretty blatantly plagiarized from Beethoven's 9-2. Not that it matters
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Classical music

Post by BrookG »

@Goodspeed Beethoven 5th
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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United States of America Cometk
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Re: Classical music

Post by Cometk »

@RefluxSemantic, @BrookG and i are wondering what your impression is of Ryoji Ikeda's dataplex (not necessarily classical, but somewhat related in regards to sound exploration)
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Classical music

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For starters this kind of work raises a huge philosophical debate on what is art, music, etc. Which is a never-ending one and I don't wanna bother arguing much. Then his work (listen to dataplex here) includes both the visual and the auditory stimulus, so if you listen only to the sound/music/track/bababooboo/etc, you get half of it. When I first heard it, I was shocked. I had never heard anything like that before, using noise as construction material was very novel to me. The Windows error remix is practically using the same seminal idea, yet it is of antipodal difference. Thankfully, due to my studies I learned to listen critically everything that gets in my ears and don't dismiss or immediately judge. Personally, it's not a music I would easily listen to casually, although it has some grotesque appeal to it.

It's certainly mind opening and there are many fascinating things about it. Ikeda's effort to create it, the elements that constitute it themselves, the sound textures that can only be explored via an electronic music context, the orchestration and reappropriation of noise, the complicated rhythms, the lack of the human factor. It really is a test for your nerves if you aren't familiar with experimental attempts in music or even the debate of what is art/music. Yet, it can lead you to an interesting trance, a 21st century hymn to noise and minimalism. (I will stop now, I can keep talking about it, and even invite a great professor that introduced me to this world)

Fun fact: We used his music for an experiment we conducted in one of my classes, where we tested the perception of time in listeners while listening and/or watching contrasting stimuli.
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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United States of America Cometk
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Re: Classical music

Post by Cometk »

despite its harshness, please do not let the first track dissuade you from listening the rest of the album! while it might seem incongruent in the early minutes of a first listen, the initial 10 tracks can be viewed as one 16 minute passage that builds.

the use of binaural recording in dataplex gives the listener a practical sense of direction in what might otherwise be interpreted as a conceptually abstract cacophony. i would even say that one of the primary reasons to listen to dataplex is because of the very pronounced sense of direction. i think this sense of direction is the most salient sonic theme in dataplex, the crux of the piece only made coherent by way of ikeda's masterful construction and immutable skill as a sound engineer.

something else interesting about dataplex is that while it is almost entirely comprised of sounds that are not physically textural, there is a very distinct sense of touch to the music. where a song played on traditional instrumentation might inspire rousing emotion, dataplex might also invoke a clear sense of cosmic terrain, all through non-corporeal means

mart, i apologizing for derailing the thread in part - i will be enjoying listening to beethoven's 3rd while eating this vegetable pasta that i cooked during my relisten of dataplex
sauce
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Re: Classical music

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Cometk wrote:@RefluxSemantic, @BrookG and i are wondering what your impression is of Ryoji Ikeda's dataplex (not necessarily classical, but somewhat related in regards to sound exploration)
it hurts. It physically hurts. I can't look beyond the pain in my eardrums.
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Classical music

Post by BrookG »

I listened to this during a real concert. Stunning experience! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foyQDp74vNY
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Re: Classical music

Post by RefluxSemantic »

I just have to share this, it's surprisingly amazing:
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Classical music

Post by Goodspeed »

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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Classical music

Post by Dolan »

@Goodspeed
Sounds like that guy has an axe to grind with Mozart and the way he builds his argument leads towards making that pre-made point. And where does the argument lead to? It leads to comparing some of Mozart's more formal and nondistinct compositions to some of Beethoven's greatest works. That's cool, bro, but how about you compare the Requiem with Bundeslied "In allen guten Stunden" Op. 122 or the Trio for Two Oboes and English Horn in C Major, Op. 87 by Beethoven?

And btw, his argument is that in his later life, Mozart was losing his edge, he wasn't composing at the same level of artistry that everyone knows him for. Is the Requiem really that mediocre a composition? If only we take into consideration the parts that are known to have been composed by Mozart. Even if we compare it to previous Requiems (since it's been a long tradition in classical music to write one), for example Haydn's, from which Mozart probably borrowed some inspiration, it's a more streamlined composition, with clearer melodies and great choral polyphonies. Haydn's, by comparison, sounds stuck in the 18th century's musical formalisms.

In the end, I don't have a problem with the idea that composers go through ups and downs in their life and creative output. It probably happened to Beethoven too. It might also be the case that Mozart managed to get a somewhat stabler relationship and marriage life, while Beethoven wasn't very successful with the women he was interested in, even when they reciprocated; they eventually married someone else. It's kind of a pattern in the lives of creators that family life tends to mellow you out, to make existence feel less tragic, unsettling and anguished. What would you write about when everything is going mostly well?

Another thing to consider is that Mozart, like many other composers, wrote lots of pieces by commission. It was simply a matter of having to make a living. To understand why one composition is not as great as another, you'd have to dig through all the details of that composer's life and understand the time constraints and whatever other pressures or lack of were impinging on his life. There's also the case that, for many creators, aging (+ family life, if there is one) can defuse the dynamite in one's creative spirit, though that dynamic probably doesn't unfold in the same way for everyone.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Classical music

Post by Goodspeed »

It's hard to say if he's even serious with the self-deprecation in the TV bit and the general tongue-in-cheekness of the whole thing. I just thought it was entertaining.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Classical music

Post by Dolan »

The little show he puts on is part of selling the idea, it's something akin to infotainment. If the subject is too dull for the general public, dramatising it might sell it.
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India TNT333
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Re: Classical music

Post by TNT333 »

Fur Elise classic favorite of mine. Turkish March also is a gem.
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