What's your most controversial opinion?

[fightinfrenchman]

Children in poverty bad.

It builds character

[Dolan]

Their body their choice

I actually like this reasoning, that is typically used to argue you shouldn't have any say in what someone does with their body, whether it's sex change, body modifications or just abortion.

You can easily translate it to taxes: their money, their choice. Why should you have any say in how someone spends their hard-earned cash? You shouldn't. So they shouldn't get taxed or they should get taxed just like everyone else, at the same tax level. Their money, their choice.
Why should you have any right to decide how much someone else should get taxed? You shouldn't, tax levels should be the same for everyone.

The same logic can produce effects you might not like.

[XeeleeFlower]

Those 2 things are incomparable. Don't feel up to writing an entire discourse on it, but may later if no one else does.

[gibson]

Those 2 things are incomparable. Don't feel up to writing an entire discourse on it, but may later if no one else does.

Its not worth it and once you commit you’re commiting to at least 5 follow up posts as well.

[vardar]

Is it controversial to say vanilla ice cream is terrible?

[fightinfrenchman]

@Dolan The word "translate" is doing some pretty heavy lifting there

[Victor_swe]

What on earth is happening now?

[fightinfrenchman]

Is it controversial to say vanilla ice cream is terrible?

It's the finest of the flavors

[vardar]

It’s so dull

[fightinfrenchman]

Imagine Jimmy Dean eating a vanilla bean

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[chris1089]

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Pro choice is not pro abortion. There is no advocating the deed, only the right. It is not equivalent to your (mis)representation.

This subject is really grey and I'm not taking sides, but c'mon.

You're picking the side that pretends this is "grey". To me it's not at all.

"Oh but it has the potential to become a person" fuck that. Is it murder not to have sex with the next person you meet on the street because there's potential of a baby coming out of that? Is it murder to use birth control? What a load of crap. It's just a bunch of cells. Murder implies consciousness. It's robbing an entity of their choice to live. A group of cells living inside you has made no such choice. If anything, it's just an extension of you, and the choice is yours to make until it develops its own consciousness.

It actually is a person with a unique set of DNA though.

Like I said for me it's about consciousness. Once the bunch of cells develops its own consciousness we can consider it a separate entity from the mother. Before that, it's just that: a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it. I don't care if it has unique DNA.

So I take it you are consistent and believe it is ok for me to enter a hospital and murder people who are in comas.

[chris1089]

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@Goodspeed How would you like this to be done?

Ban churches and any other for-profit religious oranizations, and most importantly ban religious education. Children should get a picture of reality that is consistent with science, no matter which family they're born into.

So you want people to make the scientific method God as a replacement?

The scientific method god? Can you explain what you think that is, exactly?

People can believe whatever they want. My issue is with institutional religion. It is and has been extremely destructive.

Taking the scientific method as the highest standard of authority. People makes gods out of something, it's just a question of what.
Why is religion being institutionalised worse than religion that isn't in your view?

[chris1089]

Her body her choice is a perfectly reasonable statement. Why should someone be forced to carry something for 9 months. Not to mention the impact of that on the person and that you would be making child orphan effectively at birth.

So you believe that pregnant women have 2 hearts, 2 brains, 4 legs and 4 arms so that by having half of them cut up and sucked out of her uterus or dissolved in acid she is making a choice about her own body?

[blackout]

Her body her choice is an absurd statement.

That definatly is some controversial opinion right there!

[Dolan]

@XeeleeFlower @fightinfrenchman
It's a libertarian, hyper-individualist sort of argument. You know, that kind which argues for legalisation of drugs, rolling back state powers, increasing individual choice in all matters that pertain to the individual.

Like having an abortion, changing sex, making money. I didn't bring this up as an analogy, I'm not even saying there's a perfect analogy between the two. I'm saying both arguments stem from a libertarian kind of thinking.
So in a libertarian system, both could be possible: no taxes (or same low level of taxes for everyone) and complete choice over one's body. Less state/public involvement in both.

[Cometk]

It's the hot takes thread

[fightinfrenchman]

It's the hot takes thread

That was sort of the goal ngl

[Victor_swe]

Show hidden quotes

Pro choice is not pro abortion. There is no advocating the deed, only the right. It is not equivalent to your (mis)representation.

This subject is really grey and I'm not taking sides, but c'mon.

You're picking the side that pretends this is "grey". To me it's not at all.

"Oh but it has the potential to become a person" fuck that. Is it murder not to have sex with the next person you meet on the street because there's potential of a baby coming out of that? Is it murder to use birth control? What a load of crap. It's just a bunch of cells. Murder implies consciousness. It's robbing an entity of their choice to live. A group of cells living inside you has made no such choice. If anything, it's just an extension of you, and the choice is yours to make until it develops its own consciousness.

It actually is a person with a unique set of DNA though.

Like I said for me it's about consciousness. Once the bunch of cells develops its own consciousness we can consider it a separate entity from the mother. Before that, it's just that: a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it. I don't care if it has unique DNA.

So I take it you are consistent and believe it is ok for me to enter a hospital and murder people who are in comas.

Are u trolling or what?
He is not saying its alright for u to enter anywhere and murder unborn babies either is he?
He specificly pointed out "a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it"
How did this lead u to in order to be consistent u can go and murder comapatients? Do u usually have comapatients in ur body?
L0g1C

[chris1089]

Show hidden quotes

Pro choice is not pro abortion. There is no advocating the deed, only the right. It is not equivalent to your (mis)representation.

This subject is really grey and I'm not taking sides, but c'mon.

You're picking the side that pretends this is "grey". To me it's not at all.

"Oh but it has the potential to become a person" fuck that. Is it murder not to have sex with the next person you meet on the street because there's potential of a baby coming out of that? Is it murder to use birth control? What a load of crap. It's just a bunch of cells. Murder implies consciousness. It's robbing an entity of their choice to live. A group of cells living inside you has made no such choice. If anything, it's just an extension of you, and the choice is yours to make until it develops its own consciousness.

It actually is a person with a unique set of DNA though.

Like I said for me it's about consciousness. Once the bunch of cells develops its own consciousness we can consider it a separate entity from the mother. Before that, it's just that: a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it. I don't care if it has unique DNA.

So I take it you are consistent and believe it is ok for me to enter a hospital and murder people who are in comas.

Are u trolling or what?
He is not saying its alright for u to enter anywhere and murder unborn babies either is he?
He specificly pointed out "a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it"
How did this lead u to in order to be consistent u can go and murder comapatients? Do u usually have comapatients in ur body?
L0g1C

He's defining human value in terms of consciousness as his justification for abortion.

[gibson]

Nice bad faith argument

[Victor_swe]

Show hidden quotes

Pro choice is not pro abortion. There is no advocating the deed, only the right. It is not equivalent to your (mis)representation.

This subject is really grey and I'm not taking sides, but c'mon.

You're picking the side that pretends this is "grey". To me it's not at all.

"Oh but it has the potential to become a person" fuck that. Is it murder not to have sex with the next person you meet on the street because there's potential of a baby coming out of that? Is it murder to use birth control? What a load of crap. It's just a bunch of cells. Murder implies consciousness. It's robbing an entity of their choice to live. A group of cells living inside you has made no such choice. If anything, it's just an extension of you, and the choice is yours to make until it develops its own consciousness.

It actually is a person with a unique set of DNA though.

Like I said for me it's about consciousness. Once the bunch of cells develops its own consciousness we can consider it a separate entity from the mother. Before that, it's just that: a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it. I don't care if it has unique DNA.

So I take it you are consistent and believe it is ok for me to enter a hospital and murder people who are in comas.

Are u trolling or what?
He is not saying its alright for u to enter anywhere and murder unborn babies either is he?
He specificly pointed out "a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it"
How did this lead u to in order to be consistent u can go and murder comapatients? Do u usually have comapatients in ur body?
L0g1C

He's defining human value in terms of consciousness as his justification for abortion.

He just said "Once the bunch of cells develops its own consciousness we can consider it a separate entity from the mother" i really doubt he ment that if u 40 years later take away that consciousness its then a part of the mothers body again.

[gibson]

Show hidden quotes

Pro choice is not pro abortion. There is no advocating the deed, only the right. It is not equivalent to your (mis)representation.

This subject is really grey and I'm not taking sides, but c'mon.

You're picking the side that pretends this is "grey". To me it's not at all.

"Oh but it has the potential to become a person" fuck that. Is it murder not to have sex with the next person you meet on the street because there's potential of a baby coming out of that? Is it murder to use birth control? What a load of crap. It's just a bunch of cells. Murder implies consciousness. It's robbing an entity of their choice to live. A group of cells living inside you has made no such choice. If anything, it's just an extension of you, and the choice is yours to make until it develops its own consciousness.

It actually is a person with a unique set of DNA though.

Like I said for me it's about consciousness. Once the bunch of cells develops its own consciousness we can consider it a separate entity from the mother. Before that, it's just that: a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it. I don't care if it has unique DNA.

So I take it you are consistent and believe it is ok for me to enter a hospital and murder people who are in comas.

Are u trolling or what?
He is not saying its alright for u to enter anywhere and murder unborn babies either is he?
He specificly pointed out "a bunch of cells, and part of the mother's body, so it's her decision what to do with it"
How did this lead u to in order to be consistent u can go and murder comapatients? Do u usually have comapatients in ur body?
L0g1C

He's defining human value in terms of consciousness as his justification for abortion.

He just said "Once the bunch of cells develops its own consciousness we can consider it a separate entity from the mother" i really doubt he ment that if u 40 years later take away that consciousness its then a part of the mothers body again.

No if the consciousness is gone the person obviously teleports back into the woman and abortion is again a possibility.

[chris1089]

It's about what confers human value.

[chris1089]

If the child becomes a legitimate human being in its own right when it develops its own consciousness (which you can't define precisely btw), then when it loses consciousness it loses that value given to it on the basis of having consciousness.
LOGIC