COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

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Great Britain Riotcoke
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Riotcoke »

Well the rate of interest is lower now as the interest rate for banks is lower, back in the 80s if you just left your money in the bank it made 12 percent.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Dolan »

@RefluxSemantic
Come to think of it, you could say that the Great Famine that happened in Ireland (the potato famine) was made worse by capitalist policies led by the British government back then, but the cause of the famine was natural, a potato disease, not from the economic system.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by fightinfrenchman »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
Dolan wrote:
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Yeah. Basically these are the two main destructive components of capitalism:

- the housing market
- financial speculation

The first one has a knock-on effect on the cost of living, because rent prices and home prices become a cost for businesses who employ people that need to rent.
So they have to give them a wage that can at least cover the basic costs of living, otherwise they couldn't even show up to work. Rent and mortgage prices are effectively a cost on the companies' balance sheet.
If renting prices were zero, I'm sure wages would be much lower, because companies wouldn't need to raise the financial incentives to attract employees to join them.
And house prices tend to keep growing when there are no major economic crises, always leading up to bubbles.
Just because house owners can keep squeezing tenants to infinity, if the market is not currently collapsing. Someone will always need a space to live in, or to be able to work in a certain area: free income for the boomers.

The second one doesn't need much explaining, just look at what happened in 2008 and the fact that that crisis has never been solved. It's been solved by kicking the can down the road and freezing the crisis, using public money to save private money.

The other parts of capitalism are the healthier ones and have rarely created any major crises, because they produce tangible products and services people actually need. Nobody would dare increase the price of bread or cheese like they do with the price of rent and houses, during normal economic times. Because bread and cheese don't have much speculative potential, during normal times. But you can squeeze people out of a big chunk of their income because you know they need a space to live in and you're basically blackmailing them with paying a high price for it.
It's not like in the past people hoarded the grain while the peasants starved to death. I think capitalism is capable of many different cruel things and only works when regulated properly. The housing market and the stock markets are areas of capitalism that currently lack regulation.
The housing market lacks regulation? Lol
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by n0el »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
n0el wrote:
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Have you heard of inflation?
You think 76% inflation is enough to close the gap?
Just checked the math. In 1990 compared to today, the payment is nearly the same based on average median US house price comparing interest rates, not factoring in inflation at all.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

n0el wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:
Show hidden quotes
You think 76% inflation is enough to close the gap?
Just checked the math. In 1990 compared to today, the payment is nearly the same based on average median US house price comparing interest rates, not factoring in inflation at all.
That's for the USA. I know my parents paid 100k for a house that's worth 500k now, with only about 76% inflation.
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
n0el wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Just checked the math. In 1990 compared to today, the payment is nearly the same based on average median US house price comparing interest rates, not factoring in inflation at all.
That's for the USA. I know my parents paid 100k for a house that's worth 500k now, with only about 76% inflation.
What exactly is your point with this statement?
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

princeofcarthage wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:
Show hidden quotes
That's for the USA. I know my parents paid 100k for a house that's worth 500k now, with only about 76% inflation.
What exactly is your point with this statement?
That the decrease in the rate on mortgages doesn't even come close to making up for the insane increase in value of houses.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

Goodspeed wrote:You can afford to be forced to sell some of them.
Private property is "inviolable" in our country, you are suggesting that we go against our constitution :mad:
Those ideas of wealth redistribution are the same that communist regimes have. I prefer to have freedom, thank you very much.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jam »

When the people are starving they will give up their freedom for a loaf of bread.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Goodspeed »

Jotunir wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:You can afford to be forced to sell some of them.
Private property is "inviolable" in our country, you are suggesting that we go against our constitution :mad:
Those ideas of wealth redistribution are the same that communist regimes have. I prefer to have freedom, thank you very much.
I didn't mean literally forced. You said your family was forced to sell some properties I assumed that meant it was no longer financially sustainable to keep them so they sold them. If they were literally forced to sell them, yeah that's pretty bad
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by duckzilla »

China spreads, Western media concealed the dangers of the corona vaccine from Pfizer and Biontech. This is to make the criticism of the lack of transparency of the company's own vaccine manufacturers untrustworthy.

German source
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

@Goodspeed @RefluxSemantic Thoughts on the curfew riots? Currently there are riots in Den Haag, Tilburg, Enschede, Venlo, Roermond, Stein, Helmond, Arnhem en Apeldoorn.

Those who make peaceful protest impossible, make violent protest inevitable? There definitely seems to be a trend of peaceful protest being put down hard under the guise of enforcing covid regulations.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

I dislike the curfew. It makes some important aspects of my life very inconvenient or impossible, despite those things having nothing to do with the pandemic at all. If they had just asked me to see people less often, I would have complied.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

You are basically agreeing to the fact that lockdown would have not worked and that a more compromised but compliance option would have been selected.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:@Goodspeed @RefluxSemantic Thoughts on the curfew riots? Currently there are riots in Den Haag, Tilburg, Enschede, Venlo, Roermond, Stein, Helmond, Arnhem en Apeldoorn.

Those who make peaceful protest impossible, make violent protest inevitable? There definitely seems to be a trend of peaceful protest being put down hard under the guise of enforcing covid regulations.
Just don't be dumb. Shit ain't that hard tbh
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Argentina Jotunir
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:@Goodspeed @RefluxSemantic Thoughts on the curfew riots? Currently there are riots in Den Haag, Tilburg, Enschede, Venlo, Roermond, Stein, Helmond, Arnhem en Apeldoorn.

Those who make peaceful protest impossible, make violent protest inevitable? There definitely seems to be a trend of peaceful protest being put down hard under the guise of enforcing covid regulations.
I just read an article about it on the DW, they say that the riots are because "young people in the area are bored and lack structure"
@Mr_Bramboy , is this true?
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Dolan »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:@Goodspeed @RefluxSemantic Thoughts on the curfew riots? Currently there are riots in Den Haag, Tilburg, Enschede, Venlo, Roermond, Stein, Helmond, Arnhem en Apeldoorn.

Those who make peaceful protest impossible, make violent protest inevitable? There definitely seems to be a trend of peaceful protest being put down hard under the guise of enforcing covid regulations.
If people riot, it's good. It means they're not completely dead inside, they still react to stuff that happens. They revolt.

Whether or not they're right, that's another story.
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Argentina Jotunir
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

Dolan wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:@Goodspeed @RefluxSemantic Thoughts on the curfew riots? Currently there are riots in Den Haag, Tilburg, Enschede, Venlo, Roermond, Stein, Helmond, Arnhem en Apeldoorn.

Those who make peaceful protest impossible, make violent protest inevitable? There definitely seems to be a trend of peaceful protest being put down hard under the guise of enforcing covid regulations.
If people riot, it's good. It means they're not completely dead inside, they still react to stuff that happens. They revolt.

Whether or not they're right, that's another story.
Are you an anarchist?
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Dolan »

No, just saying that rioting means people care about some public issue. It's better than if they're completely lethargic and stop reacting to anything and just become politically passive.

But that doesn't exclude the possibility that they might be wrong on why they riot, they might be misinformed, or just have different interests that conflict with whatever was decided by the authorities.

Anarchism is a system that was never tested in practice, it's mostly a bunch of theories on the possibility of a society without a state.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Goodspeed »

RefluxSemantic wrote:I dislike the curfew. It makes some important aspects of my life very inconvenient or impossible, despite those things having nothing to do with the pandemic at all. If they had just asked me to see people less often, I would have complied.
They have been asking that?
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Goodspeed wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:I dislike the curfew. It makes some important aspects of my life very inconvenient or impossible, despite those things having nothing to do with the pandemic at all. If they had just asked me to see people less often, I would have complied.
They have been asking that?
Before the curfew it was apperantly fine to see 2 people. I would have preferred them advising 2 people per week max for example.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

Dolan wrote:No, just saying that rioting means people care about some public issue. It's better than if they're completely lethargic and stop reacting to anything and just become politically passive.

But that doesn't exclude the possibility that they might be wrong on why they riot, they might be misinformed, or just have different interests that conflict with whatever was decided by the authorities.

Anarchism is a system that was never tested in practice, it's mostly a bunch of theories on the possibility of a society without a state. I don't usually support that kind of stuff.
People can care about some public issue without rioting... a middle ground is generally better.
I'm glad that you don't "usually" support anarchy.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

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Peenids on toast
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:I dislike the curfew. It makes some important aspects of my life very inconvenient or impossible, despite those things having nothing to do with the pandemic at all. If they had just asked me to see people less often, I would have complied.
They have been asking that?
Before the curfew it was apperantly fine to see 2 people. I would have preferred them advising 2 people per week max for example.
It is probably unenforceable
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Dolan »

Jotunir wrote:
Dolan wrote:No, just saying that rioting means people care about some public issue. It's better than if they're completely lethargic and stop reacting to anything and just become politically passive.

But that doesn't exclude the possibility that they might be wrong on why they riot, they might be misinformed, or just have different interests that conflict with whatever was decided by the authorities.

Anarchism is a system that was never tested in practice, it's mostly a bunch of theories on the possibility of a society without a state. I don't usually support that kind of stuff.
People can care about some public issue without rioting... a middle ground is generally better.
Yeah but sometimes you need to riot to make authorities understand you don't accept some bad law. Like in Romania we had mass protests against a decision made by the government to decriminalise some types of corruption. We realised they were trying to roll back the progress we made in fighting corruption, so people rioted and opposed the government decision.
Eventually the government gave up, because they realised people knew what they were up to.
I'm glad that you don't "usually" support anarchy.
I meant I don't usually support political systems that are just based on theory and utopian ideas, and that were never tested in practice. Anarchism is one of those. Communism used to be a theoretical, utopian system but it was eventually tested and it failed every time.
And I said "usually" because maybe one day some of these systems will be somehow proven workable, using small-scale social experiments, like some prepper communities, that can prove they can live off the grid without any state services.

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