COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

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No Flag fightinfrenchman
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

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Post by fightinfrenchman »

wardyb1 wrote:Finally getting my first AZ dose today. Catch me with that extra 5g coverage
Shit vaccine, get Pfizer
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by wardyb1 »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
wardyb1 wrote:Finally getting my first AZ dose today. Catch me with that extra 5g coverage
Shit vaccine, get Pfizer
Would if I could. I wouldn't be able to get Pfizer to January at best and before when we had no cases I was happy to wait, but now that it's starting to get out of control I'd much rather have the still good AZ compared to nothing.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by occamslightsaber »

wardyb1 wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
wardyb1 wrote:Finally getting my first AZ dose today. Catch me with that extra 5g coverage
Shit vaccine, get Pfizer
Would if I could. I wouldn't be able to get Pfizer to January at best and before when we had no cases I was happy to wait, but now that it's starting to get out of control I'd much rather have the still good AZ compared to nothing.
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/10027104 ... 19-vaccine
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Why didnt you guys buy Pfizer or Moderna? AZ really seems like a second rate vaccine right now
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

I already had covid and luckily it was not a big deal for me. I was only sick for 5 - 6 days, no sequels or anything like that. If you have some comorbidity, then it's another story.

If you can, you should wait @wardyb1 so that the pharma companies can develop better vaccines (less side effects, more efficacy). Right now, I don't recommend you take an AZ shot, based on what most of my friends who got it told me. They were all on average 3 - 4 days in bed feeling really sick, It was almost like having the disease.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by duckzilla »

For alternative anecdotal evidence: I got the AZ shot as well as first vaccine shot and I did not have any side effects. The arm hurt for like 2 days (as often after getting vaccine shots), but that was it for me. From my personal experience, I can recommend getting AZ as first shot as well as getting BioNTech/Pfizer as second shot.
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Argentina Jotunir
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

duckzilla wrote:For alternative anecdotal evidence: I got the AZ shot as well as first vaccine shot and I did not have any side effects. The arm hurt for like 2 days (as often after getting vaccine shots), but that was it for me. From my personal experience, I can recommend getting AZ as first shot as well as getting BioNTech/Pfizer as second shot.
Well, I said most, not all, perhaps you are one of the lucky ones. Still, why take the risk when you can avoid it by waiting or choosing another vaccine?
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by duckzilla »

It is a weighing up. While you seem to concentrate on the risk of having side effects with the vaccine (the common ones being sickness for two days), one can also concentrate on the risk of an actual covid19 infection. We've had this discussion in this thread for multiple months now and these two points of view are likely not to change considerably anymore. To me, the decision was not difficult: getting the AZ vaccine, risking being sick for two days, is vastly superior to the (low) risk of getting covid19 with severe symptoms. That's just how I see it and there are millions of other people, maybe also @wardyb1 , who view it like this. Of course, one can have a different view on this.

At some point it becomes likely that those, who did not get vaccinated, will be confronted with additional constraints regarding activities of daily life, because they are likely to pose a higher risk to others. In my eyes that makes a lot of sense, given that numbers of infections are slowly rising again in Germany. So that is also something that one could consider.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

I actually think the consideration for the vaccine shouldnt just be about personal benefits. Its obvious by now that we can stop the pandemic by all getting vaccinated, as that limits the spread and prevents hospitalizations and death. I didnt get the vaccine because Im particularly scared of covid, I got the vaccine because I want to (and feel like its my duty to) contribute towards lifting all the restrictions.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

duckzilla wrote: At some point it becomes likely that those, who did not get vaccinated, will be confronted with additional constraints regarding activities of daily life, because they are likely to pose a higher risk to others. In my eyes that makes a lot of sense, given that numbers of infections are slowly rising again in Germany. So that is also something that one could consider.
No matter the argument on individual rights and civil liberties, the very nature of this "constraints" indicates that the rights of a minority of people to access services, make purchases and even travel will be restricted or removed entirely unless they comply.
The message that "you don’t have to get it, but we protect the rights of businesses to deny sale or service to people who don’t" doesn’t fly. Civil rights movements fought against precisely this kind of discrimination. :mad:
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Jotunir wrote:
duckzilla wrote: At some point it becomes likely that those, who did not get vaccinated, will be confronted with additional constraints regarding activities of daily life, because they are likely to pose a higher risk to others. In my eyes that makes a lot of sense, given that numbers of infections are slowly rising again in Germany. So that is also something that one could consider.
No matter the argument on individual rights and civil liberties, the very nature of this "constraints" indicates that the rights of a minority of people to access services, make purchases and even travel will be restricted or removed entirely unless they comply.
The message that "you don’t have to get it, but we protect the rights of businesses to deny sale or service to people who don’t" doesn’t fly. Civil rights movements fought against precisely this kind of discrimination. :mad:
If you don't put constraints on the unvaccinated, the unvaccinated put constraints on the vaccinated.

The difference is that the unvaccinated could lift their constraints theirselfs, while the vaccinated don't get that opportunity. In terms of freedom, restricting the freedom of the unvaccinated is the optimal arrangement.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by duckzilla »

Jotunir wrote:No matter the argument on individual rights and civil liberties, the very nature of this "constraints" indicates that the rights of a minority of people to access services, make purchases and even travel will be restricted or removed entirely unless they comply.
The message that "you don’t have to get it, but we protect the rights of businesses to deny sale or service to people who don’t" doesn’t fly. Civil rights movements fought against precisely this kind of discrimination. :mad:
Which civil rights movements are you talking about? The ones I have in mind, e.g. the decades long campaign of African Americans in the US, did not fight against this kind of "discrimination". In contrast to being born with dark skin, you can easily change your vaccine status by going to the doctor and getting a vaccine shot. That's just a completely different matter. Comparing the situation of anti-vaxxers with the civil rights movement does the latter a disservice and shows a lack of understanding regarding the fundamental problems addressed by them.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

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Post by VinyanyĂ©rĂ« »

Under Jotunir's ideal world instead of posting we all just endlessly scream randomly generated syllables into the void, as ascribing any meaning to any sounds would force us to differentiate between them, which is discrimination and therefore bad.

This does however improve the quality of the average ESOC post.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

duckzilla wrote:
Jotunir wrote:No matter the argument on individual rights and civil liberties, the very nature of this "constraints" indicates that the rights of a minority of people to access services, make purchases and even travel will be restricted or removed entirely unless they comply.
The message that "you don’t have to get it, but we protect the rights of businesses to deny sale or service to people who don’t" doesn’t fly. Civil rights movements fought against precisely this kind of discrimination. :mad:
Which civil rights movements are you talking about? The ones I have in mind, e.g. the decades long campaign of African Americans in the US, did not fight against this kind of "discrimination". In contrast to being born with dark skin, you can easily change your vaccine status by going to the doctor and getting a vaccine shot. That's just a completely different matter. Comparing the situation of anti-vaxxers with the civil rights movement does the latter a disservice and shows a lack of understanding regarding the fundamental problems addressed by them.
The civil rights movement was a struggle for social justice that took place mainly during the 1950s and 1960s for Black Americans to gain equal rights under the law in the United States. The Civil War had officially abolished slavery, but it didn’t end discrimination against Black people, they continued to endure the devastating effects of racism, especially in the South.
As you can see, I do understand what it was about. Now, regarding the comparison, if you do not like it, then it's your problem.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

Vinyanyérë wrote:Under Jotunir's ideal world instead of posting we all just endlessly scream randomly generated syllables into the void, as ascribing any meaning to any sounds would force us to differentiate between them, which is discrimination and therefore bad.

This does however improve the quality of the average ESOC post.
It's not true and I never said that. You are missing the point and also making things up intentionally just to discredit me.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Dolan »

duckzilla wrote:In contrast to being born with dark skin, you can easily change your vaccine status by going to the doctor and getting a vaccine shot.
I really don't get this "argument" that is so used in American culture that only unchangeable factors can be grounds for discrimination.
A company might discriminate against blonde people, even though they could theoretically choose to change the colour of their hair or shave it.
What does changeability have to do with any grounds for discrimination?
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by n0el »

It doesn't, you could say that by denying people who "choose" to be unvaccinated is a type of discrimination, but compared it to discrimination of people that are of a class of no choice of their own is ridiculous.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

Just saying. Long term effects of covid are devastating even though short ones aren't. Long term effects are but not limited to, excessive tiredness, loss of energy, loss of flexibility, loss of immunity, permanent damage to liver and quite possibly heart, loss of cognition. Reports estimate 30% loss of intelligence. That last report is reflected in this thread and I wonder if it's on the lower end of the spectrum.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by wardyb1 »

RefluxSemantic wrote:Why didnt you guys buy Pfizer or Moderna? AZ really seems like a second rate vaccine right now
Because our government is useless. They turned down the initial emergency option purchasing them off of Pfizer. Let everyone get in front of the queue and only then bought a bunch. So we have some of it but not enough for everyone. No idea why we haven't tried getting any Moderna. This has also led to a terrible rollout program.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

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Post by wardyb1 »

Jotunir wrote:I already had covid and luckily it was not a big deal for me. I was only sick for 5 - 6 days, no sequels or anything like that. If you have some comorbidity, then it's another story.

If you can, you should wait @wardyb1 so that the pharma companies can develop better vaccines (less side effects, more efficacy). Right now, I don't recommend you take an AZ shot, based on what most of my friends who got it told me. They were all on average 3 - 4 days in bed feeling really sick, It was almost like having the disease.
Sorry but no. I value the lives of my family and friends, and getting back to a relatively normal society much more than possibly experiencing some side effects for a day or two.

All in all, I'm feeling alright. Started to get a chill/shakes about 10pm last night, warmed up, went to sleep, had a poor night sleep however have woken up with body aches but that's about it. Seems like a pretty good trade for me in all honesty.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

wardyb1 wrote:
Jotunir wrote:I already had covid and luckily it was not a big deal for me. I was only sick for 5 - 6 days, no sequels or anything like that. If you have some comorbidity, then it's another story.

If you can, you should wait @wardyb1 so that the pharma companies can develop better vaccines (less side effects, more efficacy). Right now, I don't recommend you take an AZ shot, based on what most of my friends who got it told me. They were all on average 3 - 4 days in bed feeling really sick, It was almost like having the disease.
Sorry but no. I value the lives of my family and friends, and getting back to a relatively normal society much more than possibly experiencing some side effects for a day or two.

All in all, I'm feeling alright. Started to get a chill/shakes about 10pm last night, warmed up, went to sleep, had a poor night sleep however have woken up with body aches but that's about it. Seems like a pretty good trade for me in all honesty.
Well I'm glad that you are feeling alright. With some rest the side effects will go away for sure.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Gotta say, I had no side-effects from Pfizer other than a bit of a sore arm. No fever, not even tired. Spent the next day doing all sorts of chores, of which the majority required some significant lifting/work and I didn't even feel tired at all. That's why I'm a bit surprised that a first world country like NZ would ever settle for Astrazeneca.

EDIT: given that jotunir decided to like this, I think I need to clarify that I think that Astrazeneca is still a great vaccine. It's just that I'd expect one of the richer countries in the world to go for the best vaccines out there, rather than second best. Similarly, the EU got contracts for additional Pfizer/Moderna up until something like 2023 and basically hasn't ordered anything else afaik.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Jotunir »

RefluxSemantic wrote:Gotta say, I had no side-effects from Pfizer other than a bit of a sore arm. No fever, not even tired. Spent the next day doing all sorts of chores, of which the majority required some significant lifting/work and I didn't even feel tired at all. That's why I'm a bit surprised that a first world country like NZ would ever settle for Astrazeneca.

EDIT: given that jotunir decided to like this, I think I need to clarify that I think that Astrazeneca is still a great vaccine. It's just that I'd expect one of the richer countries in the world to go for the best vaccines out there, rather than second best. Similarly, the EU got contracts for additional Pfizer/Moderna up until something like 2023 and basically hasn't ordered anything else afaik.
I liked it because what you said before the edit is true from my point of view as well. Regarding the edit, EU knows what's best.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

What does being a first world country has to do with anything? It was mostly a geopolitical term and is mostly outdated now.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

princeofcarthage wrote:and is mostly outdated now.
Come to the Netherlands to verify that statement. I'll marry you so you can get in.

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