COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

[Dolan]

@duckzilla Did you have any specific reason to avoid J&J?

[princeofcarthage]

Double vaccination certificate should be compulsory to post on ESOC.

Just losers have only two vaccinations. Real pros (such as me) have at least three vaccinations and all by different producers.

Well, it would ensure that Dolan doesn't get to post, so I will take that as a win.

[duckzilla]

@duckzilla Did you have any specific reason to avoid J&J?

J&J was not an option yet when I got my first shot (early May).

[lejend]

Double vaccination certificate should be compulsory to post on ESOC.

Yes moderator here's my vaxx certificate

[chris1089]

Double vaccination certificate should be compulsory to post on ESOC.

Yes moderator here's my vaxx certificate

Actually only those who have 6 shots are allowed to post to keep everyone safe.

[fightinfrenchman]

Double vaccination certificate should be compulsory to post on ESOC.

Yes moderator here's my vaxx certificate

Actually only those who have 6 shots are allowed to post to keep everyone safe.

Did you actually play that game

[Dolan]

Double vaxxed, 23 yr old climate change scientist, former powerlifter, no underlying conditions, dies of covid.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-06/ ... /100740744

[Dolan]

Also there's a new big study on the link between vax / no vax / covid and risk of myocarditis, but I don't have time to read it right now, so I'll post it when I get the time

[princeofcarthage]

Just post the link, we will read it.

[fightinfrenchman]

Just post the link, we will read it.

Speak for yourself

[Dolan]

[princeofcarthage]

Just post the link, we will read it.

Speak for yourself

I am speaking for myself you m ah. "We" here refers to group of people who are interested in reading. If you are not, you are not part of it.

[princeofcarthage]

Has anyone observed that most pandemics and epidemics in history have happened in Europe, and the majority that happened in Americas were brought by Europeans. It's like Americas, Africa, and Asia have never had such large scale diseases. Imo burn Europeans, should solve lot of problems.

[harcha]

is prince suggesting that we should restore our gas chambers?

[princeofcarthage]

No, more like a wildfire kind of thing sweeping from east to west across whole of Europe or massive floods, or sinkhole the size of Europe or a nuclear winter wherein Europe is stuck in permafrost. First we should seal off the European borders with high walls/fencing with military and navy to prevent escapees as they will likely carry diseases. I may include you in the generous euathansia program to inject you into the long dark night peacefully or the space program where the chosen few are sent of spaceship to explore new worlds or on the Mars settlement program.

Gas chambers is an ineffective way to kill billions tbh. It also has Nazi negative connotations associated with it.

For the dumb people

/s No I don't actually intend or suggest to kill anyone.

[RefluxSemantic]

Has anyone observed that most pandemics and epidemics in history have happened in Europe, and the majority that happened in Americas were brought by Europeans. It's like Americas, Africa, and Asia have never had such large scale diseases. Imo burn Europeans, should solve lot of problems.

Is this actually true? Just looking at wikipedia's list of pandemics, the biggest five are the black death, the spanish flu, the justinian plague, covid19 and HIV/aids.

Spanish flu is most likely USA, HIV is Africa, covid19 is from China.

[princeofcarthage]

Has anyone observed that most pandemics and epidemics in history have happened in Europe, and the majority that happened in Americas were brought by Europeans. It's like Americas, Africa, and Asia have never had such large scale diseases. Imo burn Europeans, should solve lot of problems.

Is this actually true? Just looking at wikipedia's list of pandemics, the biggest five are the black death, the spanish flu, the justinian plague, covid19 and HIV/aids.

Spanish flu is most likely USA, HIV is Africa, covid19 is from China.

Look at % of deaths and people affected. Of course a pandemic in 1918 which was downplayed at start will have more deaths than one in 1600. Those plagues killed 30-80% of local populations. We also had more population and more density in 1918 or 2020. Also throughout history look at number of pandemics. Europe had far more than anywhere else.

[harcha]

Europe should apologize for it's historical urbanization and the mobility it's citizens had.

[RefluxSemantic]

In terms of deaths these have affected Europe more than other regions because Europe has historically been more advanced and urbanized than other regions. The plague wasn't really a pandemic in te sense of a new virus emerging, but more a matter of being an urbanized society.

[duckzilla]

Has anyone observed that most pandemics and epidemics in history have happened in Europe, and the majority that happened in Americas were brought by Europeans. It's like Americas, Africa, and Asia have never had such large scale diseases. Imo burn Europeans, should solve lot of problems.

Actually no, no one did observe this. Most likely, because it is not true. The major difference with Europe is that 1) there is a longer tradition of writing chronicles of what happened than in other parts of the world and 2) it is much more thoroughly investigated, because most researchers/historians still are Westerners. Depending on the world region, sources are much scarcer elsewhere. An example could be Egypt. The Black Death, originally from China and brought to Europe via the Mongol Conquest, is estimated to have decimated the egyptian population much more than large parts of Europe. To cite Wikipedia:

By autumn 1347, plague had reached Alexandria in Egypt, transmitted by sea from Constantinople; according to a contemporary witness, from a single merchant ship carrying slaves. By late summer 1348 it reached Cairo, capital of the Mamluk Sultanate, cultural centre of the Islamic world, and the largest city in the Mediterranean Basin; the Bahriyya child sultan an-Nasir Hasan fled and more than a third of the 600,000 residents died. The Nile was choked with corpses despite Cairo having a medieval hospital, the late 13th century bimaristan of the Qalawun complex. The historian al-Maqrizi described the abundant work for grave-diggers and practitioners of funeral rites, and plague recurred in Cairo more than fifty times over the following century and half

If you want to have an interesting read on pandemics, plagues and illnesses have a look at this book. It is really nice and also has some hypotheses regarding the creation of the caste system in India*.




*in short: India has many climate zones which allow illnesses to arise. Over time, India has been invaded by many different cultures who noted that interacting with natives can make themselves extremely ill due to lack of antibodies to said illnesses. The result is a caste system with "untouchables" who are mainly untouchable because you might die otherwise. That's quite a social stigma.

[harcha]

damn, maybe India should look into something along these lines

First we should seal off the European borders with high walls/fencing with military and navy to prevent escapees as they will likely carry diseases. I may include you in the generous euathansia program to inject you into the long dark night peacefully or the space program where the chosen few are sent of spaceship to explore new worlds or on the Mars settlement program.

Gas chambers is an ineffective way to kill billions tbh. It also has Nazi negative connotations associated with it.

For the dumb people

/s No I don't actually intend or suggest to kill anyone.

[duckzilla]

In terms of deaths these have affected Europe more than other regions because Europe has historically been more advanced and urbanized than other regions. The plague wasn't really a pandemic in te sense of a new virus emerging, but more a matter of being an urbanized society.

No, not really. For most of the last 1500 years, Europe could not be counted among the most advanced and even less among the most urbanized regions. Sure, there was Constantinople which was big for quite a long time or Cordoba, but otherwise urbanization severely lacked behind China, parts of India or even Mexico.

I think for this topic, one should not forget that one huge european advantages has been a relative stability for a good millenium. Yes, there were frequent wars, but there were few fundamental societal changes from one day to the other. Pretty much all modern countries are somewhat recognizable in 1000AD. This is not the case for any other world region, I think. Look at China! One might be tempted to think that "China" has been around for thousands of years with its lots of dynasties. But these dynasties did not represent the same countries. There were drastic societal revolutions between the dynastic changes which often ended up killing vast quantities of people. Just look at the last 100 years. What is left of the, say, 1918 China? Not even the CCP existed at that point.

The many highly urbanized and advanced societies in other parts of the world simply did not survive as good as in Europe, e.g. Siege of Baghdad or Merv or Vijayanagara and the like.

[princeofcarthage]

Europe should apologize for it's historical urbanization and the mobility it's citizens had.

Till 18th-19th century, Europe was hardly urbanised. Of course there were few urban centres, mostly in the capital regions. Most likely poor sanitary conditions led to the frequent outbreaks.

[princeofcarthage]

@duckzilla the first plague occured in Eastern Roman Empire and likely spread from their to other parts of the world. Of course the 2nd and 3rd started in Mongolia, or China but originally they came from Europe. In fact the first one occured in Greece 1000 years before.

Of course India bas many illnesses, no one said otherwise but that doesn't mean they were pandemics. We are talking about pandemics.

[duckzilla]

@duckzilla the first plague occured in Eastern Roman Empire and likely spread from their to other parts of the world. Of course the 2nd and 3rd started in Mongolia, or China but originally they came from Europe. In fact the first one occured in Greece 1000 years before.

Of course India bas many illnesses, no one said otherwise but that doesn't mean they were pandemics. We are talking about pandemics.

No, this is wrong. Just have a a look at the wikipedia article, I linked. Your confusion might arise from the fact that the word "plague" has historically been used to describe different kinds of grave illnesses. But the actual plage is refering to the bubonic plague which is from China. Also to add further: the first recorded plague. I can only recommend to have a look at the book that I linked. It's good.

The very reason for them not becoming pandemics might have been to do with the caste system. However, there is, of course, still pandemics that arose in India, such as cholera.