COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

[princeofcarthage]

@Jotunir My post wasn't in defence of your nonsensical post. You should take vaccine.

[RefluxSemantic]

I gotta admit though, I'm quite happy that my age group is getting Pfizer/Moderna. Not really because of the blood clot stuff, but because those simply seem to work the best. The story that AZ/Johnson still prevent severe disease is nice and all, but I'd prefer to not get sick at all and have to isolate and everything.

At the current rate I'll be making an appointment next week. They're advancing about 1.5 years per day, and currently at 1986. So that's another 6-7 days for me.

[Jotunir]

@Jotunir My post wasn't in defence of your nonsensical post. You should take vaccine.

Have you taken the vaccine?

[princeofcarthage]

https://shrts.in/R5BM

Another black spot on FDA. Delays EUA for covaxin and asks for full approval. Another stunt pulled off by pfizer/moderna lobby. Such a shame that companies are milking common people for billions on global crisis and whom their own survival depends. And that governments across the world are enabling them.

[RefluxSemantic]

I feel like your source doesn't cover the claims you make. I don't even follow the logic. Can you try to elaborate?

[princeofcarthage]

Well mRNA vaccines which have been used on humans for the first time got EUA almost immediately. Covaxin which is a based on tested technology and has numerous vaccines is refused EUA and asked to go for full approval which takes lot more time. If you look at US tbh Moderna and Pfizer are the only 2 actively being used. J&J all of a sudden had clot issues, AZ had same issues. Now Covaxin is not being allowed. The common thing among all these vaccines are 1) They are extremely cheap. 2) They are based on technologies already tried and tested and are likely going to be more effective against numerous potential future variants of the virus. Pfizer and Moderna already do significantly worse against the latest variant. They are also not designed by keeping variants in mind. Covaxin is already used on millions of people without any adverse side effects. Considering all Pros and Cons it doesn't make sense why FDA would not issue EUA. The only plausible reason is pressure from Big Pharma lobby namely Pfizer and Moderna. They bullied governments and are now bullying FDA. FDA is also known for this kind of shady shit throughout its history. More so many US companies have vaccines ready and have went through phase 3 trials yet those vaccines are also not available on market.

There is also increasing evidence (source : CDC) that mRNA vaccines have been linked to increasing heart inflammation cases in young adults which has resulted in 226 deaths (need to proof read though). 226 deaths more upon already hundreds of thousands of dead because companies decided to make vaccines instead of cure.

[gibson]

Let's see an actual source from the cdc saying vaccines cause heart inflammation. As already established vaccines are far better than a cure. Preventative medicine is always the way to go.

[princeofcarthage]

Established where? CDC literally gave a quote, look up news. Preventive measure is only useful when there is no outbreak or cases are low. Not when thousands are dying daily. It's like saying sorry we had a chance to find/develop cure for you and save you and thus by extension saving all potential casualties or infected also but we decided to only save future potential infected those who may or may not die cuz that yields us more money.

[harcha]

what cure

[princeofcarthage]

What do you mean by what cure? They developed none so you have none. Instead they developed a vaccine so you have that.

[harcha]

if only you were the CEO of pfizer, this all could have been avoided

[princeofcarthage]

For the precise reason they won't ever make me CEO of pfizer. I would have put lives over money. Also its bit unfair to blame only pfizer. Without governments enabling them, they wouldn't do shady and shitty stuff in first place.

[RefluxSemantic]

Request for the following sources:

- the claim that the 'tried and tested' vaccines will be effective against future variants
- the claim that pfizer and moderna do significantly worse against 'the latest variant', and in particular that their efficacy is reduced more than that of AZ and J&J. Also once you read that source, please acknowledge that Pfizer and moderna are in a different league in terms of efficacy still.
- a list of vaccines that completed phase 3 trials. I believe the big four plus some russian and chinese vaccines are the only ones that completed phase 3 trials but I could be mistaken. Burden of proof is on you here.
- proof that it was actually possible to make a cure more effective at stopping deaths than the vaccines. Take Israel's data as a baseline.

[RefluxSemantic]

Also, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_vector_vaccine

Viral vector vaccines like AZ and J&J are also novel techniques. So the entire premise of your point is completely wrong.

[RefluxSemantic]

Ignoring all your bs claims, I think its obvious whats going on:

The mrna vaccines are the best. They are the safest afaik, they have by far the best efficacy and I think thats still the case for the current variants. The ability to essily create booster shots is nice.

In Europe and the US, Covid is basically done for. Vaccines have defeated covid. There is no reason for emergency approval of any vaccines. In a month or two we'll have vaccinated all willing people here. I believe the USA already has enough vaccines to vaccinate everyone. NL is vaccinating people from the year 1991 right now, its basically over. The only downside is that their is some people that dont want to get vaccinated, so maybe true herd immunity will be impossible to achieve. Thats why we want to use the vaccines with the best efficacy - the mrna vaccines.

Furthermore, due to circumstances in EU and US there is no emergency anymore. We dont need more vaccines, we dont need to approve covaxin or whatever. So if its not an emergency, why give emergency approval. If covaxin publishes their phase 3 data and it gives 90%+ protection against all variants, then Im sure it will get approved.

[princeofcarthage]

Request for the following sources:

- the claim that the 'tried and tested' vaccines will be effective against future variants

Already explained and given proof for in earlier pages. Tl:DR : Pfizer and Moderna vaccines target limited number/specific proteins of the virus while these vaccines target all the proteins and some more. *I maybe using wrong terms but its what basically is.

- the claim that pfizer and moderna do significantly worse against 'the latest variant', and in particular that their efficacy is reduced more than that of AZ and J&J. Also once you read that source, please acknowledge that Pfizer and moderna are in a different league in terms of efficacy still.

They are not in different league in terms of efficacy. Sputnik, Novavax, also have 90%+ efficacy. Secondly efficacy is slightly confusing, and it shouldn't be considered as the most important factor. Most vaccines prevent 100% hospitalization and severe case of disease if I am not wrong (I am not).

- a list of vaccines that completed phase 3 trials. I believe the big four plus some russian and chinese vaccines are the only ones that completed phase 3 trials but I could be mistaken. Burden of proof is on you here.

Irrelevant, the vaccine in question has been safely used on millions till now for more than 5 months. Thats better than any trial. Besides it has also completed phase 3 trials and preliminary data is already out.

- proof that it was actually possible to make a cure more effective at stopping deaths than the vaccines. Take Israel's data as a baseline.

By definition itself cure is more effective than vaccine. Cure doesn't have any middle path, it can either cure the illness or not( in 99% of cases). That is why its called a cure.

If you get infected with plague will you take cure or vaccine?

[RefluxSemantic]

Those arent sources..

[gibson]

Request for the following sources:

- the claim that the 'tried and tested' vaccines will be effective against future variants
- the claim that pfizer and moderna do significantly worse against 'the latest variant', and in particular that their efficacy is reduced more than that of AZ and J&J. Also once you read that source, please acknowledge that Pfizer and moderna are in a different league in terms of efficacy still.
- a list of vaccines that completed phase 3 trials. I believe the big four plus some russian and chinese vaccines are the only ones that completed phase 3 trials but I could be mistaken. Burden of proof is on you here.
- proof that it was actually possible to make a cure more effective at stopping deaths than the vaccines. Take Israel's data as a baseline.

Also, the source that vaccines cause heart inflammation. The only answer I ever got was "look it up yourself" which is the classic response of people who are wrong/misrepresenting information/morons.

[princeofcarthage]

Request for the following sources:

- the claim that the 'tried and tested' vaccines will be effective against future variants
- the claim that pfizer and moderna do significantly worse against 'the latest variant', and in particular that their efficacy is reduced more than that of AZ and J&J. Also once you read that source, please acknowledge that Pfizer and moderna are in a different league in terms of efficacy still.
- a list of vaccines that completed phase 3 trials. I believe the big four plus some russian and chinese vaccines are the only ones that completed phase 3 trials but I could be mistaken. Burden of proof is on you here.
- proof that it was actually possible to make a cure more effective at stopping deaths than the vaccines. Take Israel's data as a baseline.

Also, the source that vaccines cause heart inflammation. The only answer I ever got was "look it up yourself" which is the classic response of people who are wrong/misrepresenting information/morons.

No, I said cdc literally gave that quote today, look news. Its not my fault if you don''t read news.

[gibson]

Thank you for proving my point.

[princeofcarthage]

If the point being that you are a lazy brat sure.

[RefluxSemantic]

Give source or shut up

[gibson]

The point is you're a moron who can't answer a simple question and refuses to engage in one of the most basic elements of scientific debate, providing sources, likely because you're a moron/wrong.

[occamslightsaber]

I found carthage’s source.

[princeofcarthage]

This isn't exactly a scientific debate. Scientific debate also indicates that you come to table after doing all the research about the topic you are interested in discussing. Secondly I did give you a source. All you had to do was open chrome, type in "cdc quote of increasing evidence of mrna vaccines to heart inflammation" or something. It is something you could have easily done instead of posting.

If I were claiming something like I once peaked inside a black hole or like I know of a way to get that information then it makes sense you would ask for a source or research or proof. Asking proof for already established and widely available knowledge is ridiculous. It shows your lack of research and laziness thus making you a moron. Do you ask source for 2+2?

This is the basic ideological and educational differences between Asia and America and now to some extent I believe Europe. Let me elaborate. If Jerom posts something, which I maybe unaware about or may seem like wrong, my first instinct isn't to say Jerom is wrong or to ask him for source. If its interesting enough I rather do the research myself and verify it. If its wrong then only I post "Jerom is wrong". If I can't find material regarding that after basic research then I ask him for source. After all why should my first instinct be of distrust? You want everything on a silver platter served to you. If something doesn't make sense to you or you feel it is wrong or it doesn't suit your narrative you would be like "Prince is wrong" or "Source" which is just an alternative for first and a desperate attempt to discredit something that goes against your thinking without even first verifying it. No wonder Chinese and Indians are taking up all your jobs.