Official Best Movies Thread

[Cometk]

tell me more about trans-related care being a trend

gender-affirming procedures regret rate: 1%
knee-replacement surgery regret rate: about 20%

stop making a fool of yourself

[PatrickLFC]

i think exactly zero people get GRS as a "trend"

Uhm, well, you know, it has to start somewhere. Sure, not all of them get to that endpoint, only the most determined, but if promotion becomes a gateway for adopting the identity, it could also increase the number of those getting to GRS

And if feeling comfortable enough to get this surgery helps someone feel more comfortable in their own skin, how is this a bad thing? How does it affect you if other people are happier?

[gibson]

tell me more about trans-related care being a trend

gender-affirming procedures regret rate: 1%
knee-replacement surgery regret rate: about 20%

stop making a fool of yourself

You're not gonna get anywhere with this. Dolan hates trans people because they were changing his wikipedia edits( even though he has exactly 0 evidence that it was trans people doing it).

[Dolan]

tell me more about trans-related care being a trend

gender-affirming procedures regret rate: 1%
knee-replacement surgery regret rate: about 20%

Knee replacement is something that addresses a life-threatening condition. Gender dysphoria is not a life-threatening condition. I mean, if someone with GD moves to and lives in a forest, they're not gonna one day collapse and die of gender dysphoria.

[Cometk]

should also consider that the vast majority of recipients of gender-affirming care are cisgender people. tell me more about the trends of cis men who receive hair replacements, procedures for gynecomastia, viagra lol, cis women receiving breast augmentation surgery, lip fillers, etc...

[Dolan]

i think exactly zero people get GRS as a "trend"

Uhm, well, you know, it has to start somewhere. Sure, not all of them get to that endpoint, only the most determined, but if promotion becomes a gateway for adopting the identity, it could also increase the number of those getting to GRS

And if feeling comfortable enough to get this surgery helps someone feel more comfortable in their own skin, how is this a bad thing? How does it affect you if other people are happier?

Well sure, but then so do people with apotemnophilia feel better if they just amputate one or both of their perfectly healthy limbs, so they can feel more comfortable in their own skin.

It's perfectly healthy and should be promoted in mainstream movies as a vibrant, heroic identity that people need to adopt because it's cool to amputate your limbs if that validates your identity that "others just can't understand". Rather than fixing the mind/brain, it's always the best idea to have people mutilate their bodies, obviously.

[Cometk]

interesting use of the word "mutilate" when the gender-affirming procedures you're alluding to are reconstructive?

[Dolan]

should also consider that the vast majority of recipients of gender-affirming care are cisgender people. tell me more about the trends of cis men who receive hair replacements, procedures for gynecomastia, viagra lol, cis women receiving breast augmentation surgery, lip fillers, etc...

I don't think these things are nearly comparable. I mean there's obviously a huge difference between a) someone who has the XY genetics of a male doing massive reshaping of his body by removing gonads, constructing body parts he never had and were not patterned by his genetics and b) someone doing some cosmetic refreshment of their appearance, because skin and hair tend to degrade over time.

[Dolan]

interesting use of the word "mutilate" when the gender-affirming procedures you're alluding to are reconstructive?

What do they reconstruct, those people never had a vagina if they're having one "reconstructed". It just wasn't part of their genetic makeup, those genetic instructions were not on their chromosomes, or more like, they were inhibited by the presence of a Y chromosome with the SRY gene.

[Cometk]

ok, you're right my bad. constructive

[pecelot]

Just name it something else though. Why does it have to be a reskinned character rather than a new one? That immediately feels more like a statement than a movie.

because people see james bond movies. thus, the opportunity for a compassionate movie experience with someone somewhat unlike ourselves is a possibility for more people. it's fun to see reimaginations. i'd also bet that if it were to be a james-bond-oriented story/character, but not part of the james bond franchise, it would be considered a knock off, and just get tenfold less traction than would ever be possible for a james bond movie to get.

also it could be deeply resonant for the people whose experiences are actually being represented, getting to see some mainstream appeal.

what's wrong with that? do we want everyone to become the aforementioned vassals of commercialism?

[Cometk]

Just name it something else though. Why does it have to be a reskinned character rather than a new one? That immediately feels more like a statement than a movie.

because people see james bond movies. thus, the opportunity for a compassionate movie experience with someone somewhat unlike ourselves is a possibility for more people. it's fun to see reimaginations. i'd also bet that if it were to be a james-bond-oriented story/character, but not part of the james bond franchise, it would be considered a knock off, and just get tenfold less traction than would ever be possible for a james bond movie to get.

also it could be deeply resonant for the people whose experiences are actually being represented, getting to see some mainstream appeal.

what's wrong with that? do we want everyone to become the aforementioned vassals of commercialism?

there's value in both.

[pecelot]

If one sets out to change the perception of major socioeconomic issues, why not start with not following the patterns set by said morally-bankrupt Hollywood?

[Cometk]

be clearer what you're asking

[pecelot]

I'm referring to your original post I quoted above. Perhaps if you wanted to create a film series with a lead that is not a white alpha, you should do so, but, like others put it, not call it “James Bond”. It most definitely won't make the same amount of money, but hey, baby steps. Good content should stand for itself.

[Cometk]

Well you misquoted me, because I said that Hollywood films are usually creatively bankrupt, not morally. And I was pretty clear in writing that there could be value in both representation in existing mainstream media franchises and in new works.

[Cometk]

And is Miles Morales not Spider-Man?

[Astaroth]

Cometk, I just don't really understand why you are so insistent on having a woman or a trans person play James Bond. What is it to you? If it is not about some sort of political statement, why care?

There's obviously nothing wrong with having female or trans main characters, but why try to change established, existing franchies without any reason? Why try to turn something like James Bond into a political statement, so a significant portion of the media will only talk about this aspect?

[Cometk]

Cometk, I just don't really understand why you are so insistent on having a woman or a trans person play James Bond. What is it to you? If it is not about some sort of political statement, why care?

There's obviously nothing wrong with having female or trans main characters, but why try to change established, existing franchies without any reason? Why try to turn something like James Bond into a political statement, so a significant portion of the media will only talk about this aspect?

how much do i personally care about the James Bond franchise? absolutely none. haven’t seen one of them flicks in 15 years. i’m asking why YOU care. you said you don’t care what skin color/race James Bond is, but that you do care about his maleness. I asked your thoughts on a hypothetical about if the character might then happen to be a transgender man, since that fit most of your criteria for what you consider instrumental to the James Bond character’s maleness (his dress, his behavior, particularly the way that he is addressed). Somehow this is political to you. What does “political” mean then, and better yet, what does it mean for media to be absent “political”-ness? And why are you intentionally seeking media that should be “non-political”?

[Astaroth]

You are trying to change the status quo, which is Bond being a (non trans) man. The burden of proof is on you.

IF someone were to change that intentionally, the question would be: why? And considering the current political debates all over the world about inclusion, representation, "being heard", "being seen", it would be obvious that there is some sort of agenda going on.

An agenda of trying to affect and change the world, its values, the people around you, society, in a way that you consider "better, preferable, morally righteous". And an agenda that has no specific link to the movie in question.

If I watch a movie, I want to enjoy a piece of art or entertainment. I do not want to feel like someone is trying to influence me or push me into a particular worldview. Especially when it has nothing specific to do with the piece of art in question. It feels out of place and manipulative.

Imagine you are watching a movie of James Bond and constantly have him say unrelated things about the dangers of immigration or dissing Joe Biden. These kinds of things just have no place in a normal action movie.

[Cometk]

Lots of weird things in your post. Can you tell me how everything you wrote might not also apply to Idris Elba being cast as the next James Bond? Because the status quo has been that James Bond has been played by only white actors, and I think we can recognize that skin color does play a factor in the material experiences of our day to day lives (at least particularly wrt British and American contexts). And so then, why cast a black actor and change the status quo? Is that not “political” to you?

So what is James Bond to you? What are the qualities we are expecting of a James Bond? And what is “art” to you?

[Astaroth]

Idris Elba is a fantastic actor irrespective of his skin color. If he was chosen "because we need a black Bond", I would have a problem with that as well. But seeing that Bond's skin color really doesn't matter one bit and is afaik never mentioned nor does it affect any plot or relationship, Elba could easily be chosen just and only because he is a good actor whose skin color doesn't matter.

It's a question of context and intent as well.

But I really don't see why you care so much to change this. Why is it important to you to have a female or trans Bond? Why do you even give a damn? I don't get it.

[duckzilla]

You are trying to change the status quo, which is Bond being a (non trans) man. The burden of proof is on you.

Isn't that simply artistic freedom? A movie maker interpreting the base material? Whether you want to watch it is on you. You don't need to like it. But movie makers can also not be forced to repeat the same interpretation of a book series indefinitely.

I watched a performance of the opera Aida by Verdi some years ago. The director chose not to do a classic performance, but put it into a modern context: the priests wore the Hugo Boss outfits of SS henchmen and the whole piece was put into a weird Nazi context. Did I like it? Lol, no... Did I love the fanfares anyway? Hell, yes.

[Astaroth]

Well duh. Which is why the origin of this whole debate is that I "wouldn't watch a movie like that".

And of course something being artistic freedom doesn't mean it can't be criticized. Otherwise you might as well abolish all movie reviews.

[Dolan]

@duckzilla You know it's not that. It's about hijacking classic franchises for the sake of spreading some PC message.
But it's fine because this kind of message won't have any impact in other cultures that don't care about PC issues, like China, Eastern Europe, Russia. It will make other cultures grow even more indifferent to Hollywood productions and contribute to a decline in cultural globalisation. Then they can turn James Bond in anything they want to because the audience will get smaller and smaller.

It's how other action movie franchises got killed too (anyone even noticed there was a Terminator like 2 years ago? lol)