Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

This is for discussions about news, politics, sports, other games, culture, philosophy etc.
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by harcha »

@Cometk to me it looks more like baiting, but then again i don't read everything the guy says...
also you're missing the mark, i don't think goodspeed is cosigning, just not denying him the access to forum
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by gibson »

Dolan generally motte and baileys his potential racism, transphobia etc enough to be okay for forum consumption. When he doesnt he usually ends up looking like an idiot anyway. Reminds me of the time he claimed that "tranny brigade" was editing his Wikipedia edits. When asked how he knew it was trans people responded that those were the only possible people group who could possibly not agree with his antitrans agenda. When asked to provide actual evidence admitted that it wasnt possible for him to provide actual evidence but instead of doing what a rational person would do and admitting that he didnt know it was trans people doubled down that it had to be trans people, even when shown that it was statistically improbable. He demonstrates a clear lack of empathy and knowledge of basic psychology but when he's not trying to push his anti social justice agenda in the guise of science can often provide insight and valid points. I think its dangerous to silence ideas that dont line up with your own, it can give them a sort of validity, if they really are bad or wrong that should be able to be easily demonstrated. Obviously there's a line but I think Dolan generally speaking does a good job of toeing it, at least well enough to not warrant a ban. I dont have a problem with amsels post either. If his argument is incorrect that should be easily demonstrable, and I dont see how it crosses the line really.
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by fightinfrenchman »

@gibson There's just no reason to allow that kind of shit on ESOC. Things have been better since he left
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by gibson »

No censorship is bad. The only reason why censorship should exist in this community is because we don’t want to scare off new potential people.
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by fightinfrenchman »

gibson wrote:No censorship is bad. The only reason why censorship should exist in this community is because we don’t want to scare off new potential people.
I got banned from the ESOC Discord for (correctly) mentioning that there were racists on the forums.
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
User avatar
Nauru Dolan
Ninja
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sep 17, 2015

Re: Amsel's nazi endorsement

Post by Dolan »

I disagree with that interpretation. But let's start with the trifling stuff. Internet memes are whatever you make of them. They don't have a fixed, "nailed down" set of meanings. Just like anything viral, they are bound to undergo mutations. Mutations of meaning, connotations, content, etc. The "Happy merchant" meme is a jocular way of making fun of a stereotype that is associated with Jewish people. Just like there are numberless memes on the internet that try to accredit the notion that all Romanians are gypsies, all Slavs are drunkards who like to party in the city's sewerage system dressed in black Adidas tracksuits, all Indians defecate in the streets, all Swedish people are Muslims etc. Are those gypsy memes considered insulting by Romanians? Yes, sure they are. But there's no Romanian-centric Anti-Defamation League that watches over the whole planet and its internet to make sure they get "cancelled", that they are exposed and villified in the media at large. So I guess it's everyone for himself. If Romania funds such a global NGO to make sure anti-Romanian memes are exposed and people are called out for the anti-Romanian nazis they are and publicly cancelled and de-platformed and maybe even sent to prison for making such jokes on the internet. Why not? It's wrongthink. You can't be allowed to make fun of stereotypes on the internet, right? Why? Because American "culture", that's why. Because you guys don't understand other cultures. For you, a culture is something like a nice, colourful fastfood menu with lots of choices in it. You are opaque to the concept that a culture is a way of living that encompasses everything. And peoples around the world have been creating stereotypes and mocking each other for millennia. It's part of the way they form images of their neighbouring peoples or of others from across the world.

For example, Hungarians have formed this image of Romanians as "Vlachs", that is poor shepherds who live in the mountains and were unable to create any shred of civilisation. Romanians claim to hail from the Romans? What a joke, they're actually just a bunch of gypsy, Cuman, Turkish mutts whose only trace of civilisation was brought by us. That's what many of them think. It's an example of how stereotypes turn another people's image into a caricature, a deformed reductionist image of another people's traits. But you know what? These caricatures are not entirely wrong. There is a traceable morcel of truth in there, but around that minimal anchor they have weaved a whole narrative that depicts another people as completely detestable and inferior creatures. Or tricky and uncouth plebs. That's the case with so many peoples around the world: it's involved in how the Japanese see the Chinese, how Russians see Ukrainians, how Arabs see Israelis/Jews, how Greeks see Turks and so on and so forth. And yet, this hasn't been much of a problem so far, because all this folklore was kept within the confines of each culture.

But once you try to build a "melting pot" country like the USA, that's when hubris comes into play. Because in their native form, cultures don't trust each other. It's part of their genome to survive by rejecting inward interferences, unless they're deemed useful, adapted and adopted. I'm not going to recount here the history of the USA, but the way this problem had been solved initially was by having everyone align themselves to the culture of the majority that populated the original New World colonies. That European mix of Anglophone legal traditions and economic entrepreneurship, French architecture, German food and other cultural strata that were added later. Later on, though, after the civil war and after migration laws have gone through a number of changes, the cultural landscape became even more complicated and motley. Fast-forward to the 20th century, this cultural conundrum has been "solved" in the US in a number of ways: cities are pretty much segregated based on ethnic background, all relations between people in the USA emanate from the constitution and the bill of rights not a common culture (so if anything "untoward" happens, it all gets solved procedurally with a lawsuit, not according to cultural entrenched customs), the academic class that is predominantly leftwing has promoted this ultra, maximalist vision of society as a literal affirmation of the ideas of European Enlightenment (everyone MUST be equal even if they aren't, everyone MUST be presumed to be respectable and as having an inherently good nature even though their behaviour might contradict that, everyone is entitled to some list of rights that keeps growing) mixed with a heavy dose of Marxist salafism (if you're part of a majority, you are part of the problem and must be punished, because a majority is an oppressive class; positive discrimination must be used to "correct" past historical injustices, even though there's no expiry date for such a policy, it could go on indefinitely, eventually producing real reverse discrimination). It's really insane, once you understand how this huge social experiment was created and what it could lead to.

This is the setting in which you grew up and which shaped how you react to whatever stereotypes peoples from other cultures use to mock each other.
viewtopic.php?f=315&t=16266&p=370724#p370724
trying to make an excuse for yourself as to why you'll use the anti-semitic triple parentheses symbol. again, bullshit and you know it
And who decided that using triple parantheses must be a symbol of anti-whatever? The Tweetosphere located in California, Bay Area? Because some edgelords that actually believe in Nazi doctrine used them on their sites? Is there really no jocular way in which they can be used, even in some derived meaning that has no relation whatsoever with any particular ethnic group? You know, just like conspiracy-minded people tend to talk about a class of ""they"", like they're talking about some occult gathering from the underworld. As I said, memes can mutate like everything viral, why can't this usage of parentheses mutate into a new meta meaning, that refers to any shady class of ""they"". Like those who rule ESOC from behind the scenes, you know who ""they"" are and what kind of cocktails they drink and with whom.
viewtopic.php?f=315&t=18597&p=400975#p400981
"i don't believe in conspiracies... i just side with the data" like some eugenics parallel
Again, it's possible that sometimes there is some droplet of truth even in the craziest kinds of conspiracy or kooky doctrine. I mean, I know this firsthand, since I actually worked with the government and I realised how overblown is people's image of the seat of public power. When you look at it from the outside, it all looks augmented, casting a long shadow like Kafka's castle, but once you get inside, it's all so ordinary. Too ordinary.
And I've actually met a Rothschild, Ariane. And guess what, she was lobbying for a private bank to buy a majority stake in a Romanian commercial bank that we were about to privatise. Now imagine someone looking at this from the outside and seeing that a Rothschild was involved in lobbying for the privatisation of a public commercial bank. What story do you think they would come up with? Maybe I drank some baby-blood cocktail with her after the talks and I'm now part of ((them)).
viewtopic.php?f=315&t=18123

bonus points: proponent for n-word usage
Well, yes, umeu felt entitled to crack a joke about Germans, in good old European tradition of mocking other neighbouring cultures. But if someone made a joke about his ethnicity, it wouldn't have been funny anymore, wouldn't it? So if you allow one, why not allow all?
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Amsel's nazi endorsement

Post by Goodspeed »

Cometk wrote:@Goodspeed and would you co-sign any of this?
I would point out that I could be wrong but don't personally think Dolan is anti-semitic or racist. Rather he enjoys being socially disruptive and he wants to challenge PC culture. I happen to agree with him about PC culture often stifling intellectual discussion. In fact I've been fighting a constant battle against censorship from the moment we started ESOC. But I do think Dolan's method of challenging it is somewhat lazy and can be unnecessarily disruptive.
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Amsel's nazi endorsement

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Goodspeed wrote:
Cometk wrote:@Goodspeed and would you co-sign any of this?
I would point out that I could be wrong but don't personally think Dolan is anti-semitic or racist. Rather he enjoys being socially disruptive and he wants to challenge PC culture. I happen to agree with him about PC culture often stifling intellectual discussion. In fact I've been fighting a constant battle against censorship from the moment we started ESOC. But I do think Dolan's method of challenging it is somewhat lazy and can be unnecessarily disruptive.
He doesn't actually care about "PC culture" he just wants to be anti-Semitic without being banned.
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by Goodspeed »

I think you're mistaken on that, but I won't pretend to know. Maybe you should stop pretending to know, too, and make a genuine effort to understand where he's coming from.
User avatar
Kiribati princeofcarthage
Retired Contributor
Posts: 8861
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Location: Milky Way!

Re: Amsel's nazi endorsement

Post by princeofcarthage »

Goodspeed wrote:
Cometk wrote:@Goodspeed and would you co-sign any of this?
I would point out that I could be wrong but don't personally think Dolan is anti-semitic or racist. Rather he enjoys being socially disruptive and he wants to challenge PC culture. I happen to agree with him about PC culture often stifling intellectual discussion. In fact I've been fighting a constant battle against censorship from the moment we started ESOC. But I do think Dolan's method of challenging it is somewhat lazy and can be unnecessarily disruptive.
We are a gaming forum though. Some off topic for members to get to know each other is okay. This is not the place for above type of discussions though. What type of forum we want esoc to be? AOE 3 based gaming forum or? There are different forums for these type of discussions and those who want can go and discuss there. Why intentionally be disruptive in a forum which is not for that in first place?
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Amsel's nazi endorsement

Post by Goodspeed »

princeofcarthage wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Cometk wrote:@Goodspeed and would you co-sign any of this?
I would point out that I could be wrong but don't personally think Dolan is anti-semitic or racist. Rather he enjoys being socially disruptive and he wants to challenge PC culture. I happen to agree with him about PC culture often stifling intellectual discussion. In fact I've been fighting a constant battle against censorship from the moment we started ESOC. But I do think Dolan's method of challenging it is somewhat lazy and can be unnecessarily disruptive.
We are a gaming forum though. Some off topic for members to get to know each other is okay. This is not the place for above type of discussions though. What type of forum we want esoc to be? AOE 3 based gaming forum or? There are different forums for these type of discussions and those who want can go and discuss there. Why intentionally be disruptive in a forum which is not for that in first place?
You seem lost. We're in "Off topic -> Real-life Discussion".

In all seriousness, we apparently have a disagreement about what discussions this is and isn't a place for.
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Amsel's nazi endorsement

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Goodspeed wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:
Show hidden quotes
We are a gaming forum though. Some off topic for members to get to know each other is okay. This is not the place for above type of discussions though. What type of forum we want esoc to be? AOE 3 based gaming forum or? There are different forums for these type of discussions and those who want can go and discuss there. Why intentionally be disruptive in a forum which is not for that in first place?
You seem lost. We're in "Off topic -> Real-life Discussion".
Why did you lock this thread then? It's off-topic

viewtopic.php?f=315&t=19852
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by Goodspeed »

Content like this doesn't warrant its own thread.
Post it here maybe: viewtopic.php?f=315&t=18314
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Goodspeed wrote:
Content like this doesn't warrant its own thread.
Post it here maybe: viewtopic.php?f=315&t=18314
How do you determine what topics warrant their own thread?
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

  • Quote

Post by Goodspeed »

Arbitrarily
No Flag lejend
Jaeger
Posts: 2461
Joined: Nov 15, 2015

Re: Amsel's nazi endorsement

Post by lejend »

Goodspeed wrote:I would point out that I could be wrong but don't personally think Dolan is anti-semitic or racist. Rather he enjoys being socially disruptive and he wants to challenge PC culture. I happen to agree with him about PC culture often stifling intellectual discussion. In fact I've been fighting a constant battle against censorship from the moment we started ESOC. But I do think Dolan's method of challenging it is somewhat lazy and can be unnecessarily disruptive.
That's pretty much my understanding of the situation as well.

@Cometk I don't think many people here would disagree that Nazi sympathy, edgy jokes etc. are gross and wrong (we're not idiots), but I find it easy to separate a man from his views or speech, especially online, where people tend to say all kinds of edgy things they wouldn't say in real life.

I also think you'd be hard-pressed to find one person here (you and me included) who doesn't hold any strange or downright demented views, probably without even realizing it, so if we treated everyone the way Dolan and Amsel are being treated, the whole community would fall apart.

It's perfectly fine to call out people for sympathizing with Nazism or making edgy jokes or whatever (that's part of persuading them to change their views/behavior), but I have a big problem with telling them to leave the forum. That doesn't solve anything and only destroys the sense of community here. If someone can be part of the community for years and still get pushed out just for making a few gross comments, that's not very appealing. You're not going to change anyone by driving them away, you have to challenge them and force them to rethink their views or posting behavior. It may seem fruitless at first but it works.
User avatar
United States of America Amsel_
Howdah
Posts: 1855
Joined: Jan 29, 2018
ESO: The_Amsel

Re: Amsel's nazi endorsement

Post by Amsel_ »

Cometk wrote:
Amsel_ wrote:I like Dolan. It's nice to not have a forum filled entirely with redditors who try to start a witchhunt to get you banned every other month. Even better would be to have mods who don't allow threads slandering a user as a nazi, when the issue could have easily been talked about in the thread OP is referring to.
never tried to get you banned. this entire fucking thread is about why a post like the one you made should not be on the website

the point of your post boils down to: "western civilization, by nature, is doomed to decline; the only cure is a fascist authoritarian military state that also commits genocide"

:hmm:
"Western civilization" is an interesting choice of words. I complained about certain mindsets and trajectories that are degenerative. But I didn't restrict it to the locality of "Western Civilization;" though, one could point out that non-Western countries which adhere to these mindsets that I dislike (such as China and Japan) got their mindset from the West. That would make Western Civilization a disease; fascism would be the drug that "cures" the disease. But this posits fascism and Westernism against each other, despite the fact that fascists seem to be the most ardent defenders of "Western Civilization." That makes me inclined to interpret your post as saying that fascism is curing the disease of decline within Western civilization.

On the other hand, staunch internationalists will frequently appeal to national or cultural sentiments when convenient. They say that things which were common throughout most of American history are "un-American;" and I've observed that this same nation-specific appeal is given in every country these types inhabit, even in the same breath as a complaint about illiberal aspects of their nation's history. Perhaps you're doing that, but with Western Civilization. I could envisage someone sayings "fascism is against our Western values."

If this is actually your interpretation of my beliefs, you will need to elucidate your thought process further. But I don't think that's what you actually got from what I've said. I doubt you even devoted much thought to the subject. I think that something has upset you, and you want to make it go away. Your battle plan is to speak without speaking, to make serious discussion impossible through a mocking superficiality and oversimplification of things, to ensure that you are always there saying "I am upset. I disagree with this person. Someone needs to do something."

This is a good strategy. It has worked in the past, and it will work in the future. Ultimately, you will get what you want. I will be banned, and perhaps some others as well, or the environment will be made so unbearable to us that we simply stop coming here. The only reason it hasn't already succeeded was because of a difficulty in building consensus. Men have an egotistic desire to allow free-speech, because we believe this makes us open-minded, intellectuals even. There are also many people too unwilling to admit their feelings that they want to suppress everyone they dislike, so they approach the topic in a more conciliatory manner. (unlike you, who is admirably able to state his desires outright) Both of these factors are what caused those bumps in the road. But one day the stars will align, and a consensus will be built. Time is against me. But think what would happen if we started censoring. People would become too afraid to post a lot of things. Discussion would grow stale and petty. There would be no life, and activity would decline. Time will be against you.
Canada Jam
Jaeger
Posts: 3107
Joined: May 16, 2015
ESO: Hyperactive Jam

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by Jam »

I am a Nazi sympathizer. I know that this may come as a surprise to many of you, but hear me out. There are actually several good reasons to sympathize with the Nazis.

1) I sympathize with the hatred in their hearts and what must have lead them to live such hateful lives
2) I sympathize with the young ones who simply don't know any better, their minds are stolen
3) I sympathize with the loss of their lives which could have been constructive instead of destructive
User avatar
European Union aaryngend
Howdah
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sep 26, 2015
Location: Germany
Clan: N3O

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by aaryngend »

As long as Goodspeed lets his laissez-faire attitude loose, e.g. allowing pretty much any kind of discussion, you will have trolls running rampant and test how far they can go. It's in their DNA.
Ask yourself if it's really worth it to have basically no rules just to get more page views/posts & discussion.

I personally would never cater to the intentional troublemakers, any good forum needs rules which are applied. If that means less activity, so be it.

I know this is the OffTopic area but even that kind of forum has rules.
User avatar
United States of America Amsel_
Howdah
Posts: 1855
Joined: Jan 29, 2018
ESO: The_Amsel

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by Amsel_ »

*cracks open a monster*

Yep. I remember back in the day when the word "troll" didn't mean "someone who disagrees with me" or "someone who makes a joke I don't like."
User avatar
European Union aaryngend
Howdah
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sep 26, 2015
Location: Germany
Clan: N3O

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by aaryngend »

Amsel_ wrote:*cracks open a monster*

Yep. I remember back in the day when the word "troll" didn't mean "someone who disagrees with me" or "someone who makes a joke I don't like."
False argument. People disagree all the time with each other, especially when it comes to game balance. Yet you won't find anyone who wants to ban someone for a "wrong" or uneducated opinion. Yet many people don't want to see certain type of content, ask yourself why.
This has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with a matter, deliberate trolling is a whole different matter and you know that very well.
There are enough places on the internet where you can meme about your Nazi stuff.
Amsel_ wrote:Ngl I'm incredibly surprised that I haven't been banned yet. Normally mods just personally dislike me, and then look for any excuse to ban me. Dolan warned me, just before he left, that ESOC was going to start censoring a lot more, but so far it hasn't come to fruition.
Don't these lines prove that you just want to troll and stir up controversy for the sake of it ?
User avatar
United States of America Amsel_
Howdah
Posts: 1855
Joined: Jan 29, 2018
ESO: The_Amsel

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by Amsel_ »

aaryngend wrote:
Amsel_ wrote:*cracks open a monster*

Yep. I remember back in the day when the word "troll" didn't mean "someone who disagrees with me" or "someone who makes a joke I don't like."
False argument. People disagree all the time with each other, especially when it comes to game balance. Yet you won't find anyone who wants to ban someone for a "wrong" or uneducated opinion. Yet many people don't want to see certain type of content, ask yourself why.
This has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with a matter, deliberate trolling is a whole different matter and you know that very well.
There are enough places on the internet where you can meme about your Nazi stuff.
Amsel_ wrote:Ngl I'm incredibly surprised that I haven't been banned yet. Normally mods just personally dislike me, and then look for any excuse to ban me. Dolan warned me, just before he left, that ESOC was going to start censoring a lot more, but so far it hasn't come to fruition.
Don't these lines prove that you just want to troll and stir up controversy for the sake of it ?
I have actually taken the effort to be more respectful than usual to some people here. (Although I will confess that I use snideness rhetorically and have an extremely dismissive attitude towards the hoi polloi. These things aren't malicious, however, they could rightfully be interpreted as anti-social.) If you want to see trolling, look at the ear. He clearly says stuff just to get a rise out of people. He clearly approaches many arguments in bad faith. That's trolling. When I give my ideas on a subject, and try to give good responses to people who ask about or argue against my thoughts, that is not trolling. It's discussion. Just because the subject matter of that discussion bothers you does not mean that it has been my intent to upset anyone.
User avatar
European Union aaryngend
Howdah
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sep 26, 2015
Location: Germany
Clan: N3O

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

Post by aaryngend »

Amsel_ wrote:If you want to see trolling, look at the ear. He clearly says stuff just to get a rise out of people. He clearly approaches many arguments in bad faith. That's trolling.
May be, I have no idea about 98% of the posters here.
Amsel_ wrote:When I give my ideas on a subject, and try to give good responses to people who ask about or argue against my thoughts, that is not trolling. It's discussion. Just because the subject matter of that discussion bothers you does not mean that it has been my intent to upset anyone.
Oh those topics don't bother me personally, I just don't like cool communities and quality discussion going down the drain because of a handful of mischief-makers.
Though I noticed that certain threads in the OffTopic subforum don't get shown on the forum side-bar, which is a good idea.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Amsel's "nazi endorsement"

  • Quote

Post by deleted_user »

The internet is very weird.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV