US riots

[fightinfrenchman]

It's almost like there's a pattern of things like this happening

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[fightinfrenchman]

I will say that:

1.) Obviously the guy who killed him should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and it's a shame it took so long to charge him

2.) It's ridiculous that the other cops haven't been charged for their complicity in a murder

3.) This has happened far too many times without people being brought to justice

4.) People are justifiably angry

5.) Property damage pales in comparison to the loss of life

... But... there's still a pandemic going on (even though the media got bored of that story and wants to move on), and these protests are mass gatherings that are going to lead to excess tragedy in the coming weeks.

[vardar]

To take anger out on innocents is not helping it is hurting. None of that is their property to damage regardless of anger. It’s criminal. It is also criminal to kill an innocent man who pleaded for his life without any help.

[gamevideo113]

No need for a dick-measuring contest guys. Like Obama said, “I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.”

I'm not an Italian exceptionalist though

[wardyb1]

To take anger out on innocents is not helping it is hurting. None of that is their property to damage regardless of anger. It’s criminal. It is also criminal to kill an innocent man who pleaded for his life without any help.

They didn't listen when they're petitioned. They didn't listen when people started kneeling. They didn't listen when it is peaceful assembly. They started listening when property was damaged. Well what do you want people to do then? If it is the only way to get noticed, to make change happen, then what else should they do? The video of the murder is a perfect example. For 9 minutes, everyone stood by, yelling, screaming, pleading for them to stop what they were doing. Nothing happened, they continued murdering a man in front of everyone. Yet, George Floyd may still be here today if everyone on the sideline had have gotten violent and forced themselves onto the police. But then they would've been attacked, vilified and arrested themselves. So when violent action is the only option, what choice is there?

[gamevideo113]

What's really insane about this is that the policeman was yelled at for a good 3 minutes to let the guy breathe by the bystanders. The right thing to do was being shoved right in his face, yet he decided not to listen and keep disregarding both common sense and everybody else's opinion.
I can accept that sometimes the situation might get out of control and escalate quickly if there is a substantial risk for policemen. Their job is dangerous after all. But the situation here was totally under control and the cop was given so much time to rethink his actions.
The other policemen protecting him refused to acknowledge that their colleague was using an excess of force too, despite the fact that it was blatantly obvious. They should definitely be charged too.

[martinspjuth]

They didn't listen when they're petitioned. They didn't listen when people started kneeling. They didn't listen when it is peaceful assembly. They started listening when property was damaged.

Did they? As far as I know the only thing they have done is charge the police officer with murder, nothing else. It’s not like these riots will remove the racist elements from the police force or other parts of the government. All these riots will accomplish are destroying property, ruin peoples living and probably ending up physically hurting and possibly even killing more people.

So when violent action is the only option, what choice is there?

Why would it be the only option? Yes, the peaceful way might not be able to change everything over night, but neither can the violent way. The only positive thing these riots bring is publicity, but that could most likely also have been achieved in a more peaceful way.
It is okay to be upset and angry (you should be in this case), but it is never okay to take it out on innocent people, especially not by physically hurting them or their property.

[Dolan]

This stuff is going to be decided in a court of law, any discussion based on impressions from footage is likely to not be able to establish all the facts.

There will be a medical report, they will check the regulations to see what are the limits of legitimate use of force in such cases, whether the officer in question followed the procedures or went beyond those regulations, whether the officer acted like this out of negligence or motive, etc.
You don't have access to the medical report, you probably don't know the specific regulations used by those policemen in this US state, you don't know what is common practice in such cases and when such methods are used, that's why it's pointless to have this discussion.
And you're not a court of law to establish legal guilt.

[duckzilla]

No need for a dick-measuring contest guys. Like Obama said, “I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.”

I'm not an Italian exceptionalist though

The "exceptionalism" may not always refer to the same field. The Italians I know definitely believe in the Italian exceptionalism regarding the country's cuisine

[duckzilla]

timeline:
1) Cop Murders a man
2) No rational people defend the cop, regardless of race
3) Cop Fired
4) Few days later, cop arrested and charged

How is that not the system working as intended?
Why burn down Minneapolis?

Ear already said it, but I feel the urge to repeat:
This is not how the system is meant to work. This cop was protected by his pals for multiple days. Only when the shit already hit the fan this police officer was finally arrested. If there had been no video, this police officer would not have been charged at all.

I just watched the full video and that cop may not have actually cared if the guy died based on how he behaved in the video. They mentioned the guy was on drugs, which may be the reason he was on the ground in the first place, but there is no excuse for not letting up when the man was unresponsive and even very little reason why pinning his neck is reasonable in the first place. That is definitely murder.

Just think of being the one who does the video. Seeing someone being killed right before your eyes and you don't have any right to help him, because the murderer is a police officer who can actually shoot you for that. It does not even help to address his three colleagues, because they do not interfere in the murder.
This is a level of impotence and despotism that is difficult to bear.

[Dolan]

Thing is you don't really know what's going on there. There have been plenty of such cases in which the pinned down person was not killed. And sometimes they might claim they can't breath so they can escape. I've seen such a case before, of a fat guy who was pinned down by the police and he claimed he couldn't breath and nothing happened despite being pinned down. He was just apprehended and sent to a local prison. Not sure I can find that video again, but I'm telling you this kind of things probably happens often enough for the police officers to not trust someone simply because they say they can't breath.

Yeah, there is a problem here, what if the person really cannot breath. How do you proceed to establish if they are just pretending to not be able to breath or they truly cannot breath? Do you call paramedics, do you wait for paramedics to come before you decide whether you pin down the suspect or not? It's a complicated situation. And maybe it's one that police officers should not simply decide on without having very good procedures to use. Maybe they need some kind of device to check if the person can really breath or not. Or maybe this procedure of immobilising a suspect by pinning them down by the neck is too risky to continue to be used anymore.

That's why so far the charges pressed are for manslaughter, meaning involuntary homicide. There probably is no established motive yet to charge this officer with actual intentional homicide.

[chris1089]

Candidates for best country in the world other than America?

[RefluxSemantic]

Tbh based on many of the videos I see of american police, I still doubt if this is pure racism. Those cops are always ridiculously aggressive and they seem to try to solve any tiny conflict with excessive violence. If anything this should be looked at.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Candidates for best country in the world other than America?

The Netherlands is the best country in the world. Anyone who disagrees has not stayed in The Netherlands for long enough.

[Dolan]

Tbh based on many of the videos I see of american police, I still doubt if this is pure racism. Those cops are always ridiculously aggressive and they seem to try to solve any tiny conflict with excessive violence. If anything this should be looked at.

How "racist" is this:

[Dolan]

Not sure about this one but it seems like it's two cops (a white and maybe a Hispanic one) brutalising a white suspect:



So this kind of treatment seems common in the US. If you search on youtube you find plenty of cases of all types (Asian cop maltreating black teen, black cops mistreating black suspects, whites vs whites etc).

[Mr_Bramboy]

[princeofcarthage]

Candidates for best country in the world other than America?

Nordic countries
Switzerland
Luxembourg
Monaco
Japan
Singapore
Iceland
Greenland
Canada
New Zealand

However in terms of Major nations it will be either France or Germany followed by US and other EU countries.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Candidates for best country in the world other than America?

Nordic countries
Switzerland
Luxembourg
Monaco
Japan
Singapore
Iceland
Greenland
Canada
New Zealand

However in terms of Major nations it will be either France or Germany followed by US and other EU countries.

You forgot The Netherlands. Greenland isn't even a country.

[princeofcarthage]

Candidates for best country in the world other than America?

Nordic countries
Switzerland
Luxembourg
Monaco
Japan
Singapore
Iceland
Greenland
Canada
New Zealand

However in terms of Major nations it will be either France or Germany followed by US and other EU countries.

You forgot The Netherlands. Greenland isn't even a country.

Greenland is autonomous territory. Yes it doesn't exactly qualify as nation but warrants a mention.

Netherlands I did mention, "EU" cuz the difference is so less it doesn't warrant a seperate mention. You could even swap places with many EU countries in theoretical rankings and be accurate.

[martinspjuth]

This clip from the Newsroom, although a bit old, address the subjected of whether America is the greatest country in the world or not, quite well.

[RefluxSemantic]

The difference between EU isnt small at all..

[gamevideo113]

Relatively small i guess

[duckzilla]

Candidates for best country in the world other than America?

The Netherlands is the best country in the world. Anyone who disagrees has not stayed in The Netherlands for long enough.

Can't accept this because I'm still very disappointed in my fellow burghers from the rhine delta who declared independence, found a new religion, adopted a new identity and left us poor lower-rhenish peasants alone with the god-damn archbishop.