US riots

[wardyb1]

Fucking chemical warfare. This would a literal war crime if it was against anyone but their own civilians.

[vardar]

@wardyb1 no, I think you have 10 bad cops not 1010. How is this different than if you had a population of 1000 people and 10 of them were rule breakers. The 10 should be taken care of. Agreed, bad officers should not be allowed to go to other cities and do the same they were doing before.

Don’t make good cops’ jobs harder because of the bad ones. It’s already a toxic environment and now it’s worse. Now if you propose the majority of cops are bad, then we have a different situation. Same with if you think the whole system is corrupt.

And these riots and protests are out of control. Can’t really compare these instances to that of day to day police operations. These are riot squads and national guards units, not city police or even state troopers or DEA agents. Some bad situations from these videos. Was never really arguing about the actions of national guard and riot squad units in times like these.

Just drove by a state trooper that had someone pulled over. Stupid pig.

[princeofcarthage]

Should just charge all of the officers involved, declare them guilty and be done with it.

[deleted_user]

@wardyb1 no, I think you have 10 bad cops not 1010. How is this different than if you had a population of 1000 people and 10 of them were rule breakers.

Because citizens aren't all given immense judicial exercise to end someone's life, and aren't ever in a position to prevent it when it's being done by authorities. The police are sworn in to protect and serve. They inhabit a position of incredible authority and are the only other persons that exist as the only equal of that power to prevent their coworker's abuse of that power, in real time.

Whether you take this thought experiment as literal or not, something should be done to prevent abuse. And other cops are the only persons that can challenge that before irreversible consequences occur.

I advocate for increased training for all personnel involved in areas as important as a person's life, which is naturally at stake with a knee on their neck for 8 minutes because they were selling cigarettes for $1 when the victim repeatedly exclaimed they can't breathe and two other police were onlookers. I advocate for no reprehension if another authority figure steps in.

Being a cop is hard. It should be hard. You get to decide if someone lives or not. It should be a hard job to keep. Chauvin had 18 filed complaints on his record. His onlooking partner had been previously sued for excessive force.

[RefluxSemantic]

I think you could do all three, but then state those three things. The protests that have been in my city, at least, have simply said they are "Black Lives Matter protests" or that they want "black voices to be heard", which are sentiments I agree with, but I feel like the lack of a clear objective makes actual concrete change less likely to result from them. I am also of the opinion that asking for less may make lawmakers more willing to listen; for example, if a group in my city organize an event showing solidarity for Amash's bill, I believe that type of focussed approach has a stronger message than the protests that have occurred thus far, at least in my city. I just think having a practical goal, like targeting a certain piece of legislation, is the more effective measure.

I think black lives matter protests are silly. They contribute basically nothing to a solution. Its an obvious message to those that agree and I feel like people that dont agree will use this stuff to justify their views. Its basically symbolism that isnt going to make things better.

[fightinfrenchman]

I think you could do all three, but then state those three things. The protests that have been in my city, at least, have simply said they are "Black Lives Matter protests" or that they want "black voices to be heard", which are sentiments I agree with, but I feel like the lack of a clear objective makes actual concrete change less likely to result from them. I am also of the opinion that asking for less may make lawmakers more willing to listen; for example, if a group in my city organize an event showing solidarity for Amash's bill, I believe that type of focussed approach has a stronger message than the protests that have occurred thus far, at least in my city. I just think having a practical goal, like targeting a certain piece of legislation, is the more effective measure.

I think black lives matter protests are silly. They contribute basically nothing to a solution. Its an obvious message to those that agree and I feel like people that dont agree will use this stuff to justify their views. Its basically symbolism that isnt going to make things better.

What would you recommend people do instead, guy who says people in the US should literally revolt?

[iNcog]

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[fightinfrenchman]

@wardyb1 no, I think you have 10 bad cops not 1010. How is this different than if you had a population of 1000 people and 10 of them were rule breakers.

Because citizens aren't all given immense judicial exercise to end someone's life, and aren't ever in a position to prevent it when it's being done by authorities. The police are sworn in to protect and serve. They inhabit a position of incredible authority and are the only other persons that exist as the only equal of that power to prevent their coworker's abuse of that power, in real time.

Whether you take this thought experiment as literal or not, something should be done to prevent abuse. And other cops are the only persons that can challenge that before irreversible consequences occur.

I advocate for increased training for all personnel involved in areas as important as a person's life, which is naturally at stake with a knee on their neck for 8 minutes because they were selling cigarettes for $1 when the victim repeatedly exclaimed they can't breathe and two other police were onlookers. I advocate for no reprehension if another authority figure steps in.

Being a cop is hard. It should be hard. You get to decide if someone lives or not. It should be a hard job to keep. Chauvin had 18 filed complaints on his record. His onlooking partner had been previously sued for excessive force.

well floyd was possibly breaking the law thus he had it coming to him. if he had just stayed on being possibly on the good side of the law, he would have possibly lived.

white silence is Complicity lol

Don't forget that he also may have had a pre-existing medical condition, thus doubling how badly he deserved to die

[iNcog]

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[Dolan]

It's not just "talking fast." It's speaking in line with a beat, with lyrics that were written and edited.

If speaking in line with a beat is music, then those drumroll public announcements are music.

Basil Bunting wanted all of his poetry to be spoken out loud. Poetry is strong with beat, syllables, stressed and unstressed, and stresses in between. No one sings poetry because poetry is sans music. Poetry is art, with musical attributes. A lot of lyrics have poetic attributes.

Here's your poetry, bro:

Milking this shit, pregnant bitch titties
Bringing home the bacon, I’m fucking Miss Piggy
Loaded like a semi, send me naked pictures
She knows my dick, she call that nigga Richard
Prior to me cumming, I had to stick my thumb in
Her ass one time, smell my finger, make you vomit

But it's not this. There is rhythm, melody, and harmony (Ben). But most of all, it is emotionally effective, which makes it effective art, within the musical genre.

It's primitive and it demeans any qualitative meaning of music. It's a sad reflection of these times when we have to define music based on statistical, quantitative terms, like does it include X, does it include Y. And this is also the result of "American culture" influence, this statistical mindset.
This relativistic concept of art (art is whatever I call art) is Marcel Duchamp's destructive legacy that has pretty much nuked any meaningful way of talking about art. Once you can't challenge another artistic product on qualitative terms, it's pretty much conceptual anarchy, in which anything goes and nobody's vision is qualitatively better than another's.

We can simplify this debate by just agreeing you have a very limited definition of music as art. Tons of music with lyrics, which is art, doesn't "sing" outside of the rap genre. Art is art if it's emotionally effective. If it's not emotionally effective for you, that doesn't make it not art, it makes it not something you enjoy. You aren't the arbiter of music.

Yeah, I don't have an issue only with rap/hh. The 20th century has rendered everything in art so relative that any noise qualifies as music, even silence. What is the outcome? Complete dissolution of values and people calling street thuggery hooting art and music. Yeah, we're at a really low point in humanity's odyssey.

And anyway, rap "songs" almost always revolve around the same emotions: me > you, me have bitches and hoes and gold chains and expensive cars, me and mah homies will wreck your shit. It's like the most primitive tribal shit you could come up with.

Terrible generalization.

This is where statistics would be useful. I'm willing to bet 80% of rap is all about bitches, guns, drugs, gold chains, me and the gang in a car, homies etc etc. Really deep stuff. The poetry of me and mah gang gesticulating with gang signs, while talking fast on a beat and jumping around with pants pulled down to the knees.
Try build a civilisation on that.

[Dolan]

I think black lives matter protests are silly. They contribute basically nothing to a solution. Its an obvious message to those that agree and I feel like people that dont agree will use this stuff to justify their views. Its basically symbolism that isnt going to make things better.

Yeah, tbh, this gave Trump the opportunity to come out and posture as the guy who wants to re-establish order, in contrast to the elected Democrats in those states where looting and destruction took place. He probably was advised to leave things unfold like this for a while, to make protesters and Democrats look like agents of social unrest and property destruction. So he could later come out and pretend he wants to set things right. It's almost like protesters were baited into this.

[duckzilla]

lol, Trump tear gassing peaceful protesters in front of the white house to cross the street, make some bible selfies with church in background, and then go back.

[Goodspeed]

It's becoming important that the US has economic competitors. The rest of the world needs leverage to be able to stop it from committing war crimes against its own citizens and to stop it from sliding further towards authoritarianism.
Such a bad time to Brexit..

[wardyb1]

Yep, just a few bad apples folks. Nothing to see here. Nothing to worry about all.

[Dolan]

If the US police had trouble recruiting until now, imagine how it's going to be from now on. Basically nobody will want to join. Solution? Lower entry conditions even more.

[chris1089]

What on earth? Is there any basis whatsoever for this? Is there some context that I am not aware of?

On rap music, I dislike the majority of it because I find it very vulgar. However the good stuff is like poetry onsteroids, and it's very good. @Dolan it does invoke emotion. Recommendations: NF and if you're into Christian stuff then beautiful eulogy, Shai Linne and Lecrae.

[gamevideo113]

At this point there's probably 1h+ of footage of american cops using excessive violence in the last few days... imagine what wasn't caught on camera

[iNcog]

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[iNcog]

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[martinspjuth]

It's becoming important that the US has economic competitors. The rest of the world needs leverage to be able to stop it from committing war crimes against its own citizens and to stop it from sliding further towards authoritarianism.
Such a bad time to Brexit..

What competitors, China? Yeah, because they care sooo much for human rights and are not authoritarian at all, right?

EU? An extremely inefficient organization of countries who can't agree on anything more significant than a ban on vacuum cleaners over a certain wattage. EU can't get along with how to distribute refugees, have countries who clearly go towards authoritarianism and move their headquarters to the cost of over 100 million euros and lots of pollution, just to satisfy the ego of one of its member states.
Honestly, Britain could have done a good thing by leaving EU. Most (all?) good things about EU is possible with separate treaties without the need for a level of authority above the government level.

[Goodspeed]

Nice rant. I never said that it's currently realistic for the world to use leverage to get the US in line, just that it's becoming important.

[wardyb1]

Just in case anyone here still doesn't get it.

[martinspjuth]

Nice rant. I never said that it's currently realistic for the world to use leverage to get the US in line, just that it's becoming important.

You said it was a bad time for Brexit, in the context of US needing economic competitors who can put pressure on the US to do the right thing. If you don’t think it is realistic for the world to use leverage to get US in line, then there is no point bringing up Brexit and saying it was a bad time.

[Goodspeed]

Nice rant. I never said that it's currently realistic for the world to use leverage to get the US in line, just that it's becoming important.

You said it was a bad time for Brexit, in the context of US needing economic competitors who can put pressure on the US to do the right thing. If you don’t think it is realistic for the world to use leverage to get US in line, then there is no point bringing up Brexit and saying it was a bad time.

Why does it imply I think it's currently realistic? It's potentially realistic in the future, slightly less so due to Brexit. Anyway I'm not interested in a discussion about Brexit and since you obviously feel strongly, feel free to disregard my comment. It was just a thought.

[Dolan]

Even with the UK still in the EU, not sure the EU would have played a more prominent role in the world right now. There's so much wavering and hesitation at the EU to play a more assertive role in the world and most of that is due to the fact that the EU is not really a supranational entity. The strongest power agents in the EU are still sovereign states, they have the last word on everything. And this has been really visible during the Covid crisis when everyone defaulted on just managing the crisis within their own borders, without paying much attention to what happened in other EU countries.

Despite this, Eurosceptics continue to believe that the EU is some kind of supranational monster, when it's really far from that. The reason why it's so ineffective and lacks assertiveness on the world stage is precisely because most of the power is in the hands of national governments. So they constantly have to check back with each head of state and government and try to negotiate a common position on everything.