US riots

[gamevideo113]

The statement from LAPD Chief just goes to show how much they don't even realize that the police are the problem, not citizens.

[Dolan]

The police are not a state within a state. They're subordinated to local authorities, which are elected. So if you want to see who's responsible for what, why not check who are the governors from those states?

[gamevideo113]

[duckzilla]

It does not bear thinking of the moral depravity if this woman had become president who had the audacity of sending official emails from her private account.
The US really dodged a bullet here.

[wardyb1]

Lots of guys watching on letting it happen. How do people still hold that it is "just a few bad apples"?

[RefluxSemantic]

I think you could do all three, but then state those three things. The protests that have been in my city, at least, have simply said they are "Black Lives Matter protests" or that they want "black voices to be heard", which are sentiments I agree with, but I feel like the lack of a clear objective makes actual concrete change less likely to result from them. I am also of the opinion that asking for less may make lawmakers more willing to listen; for example, if a group in my city organize an event showing solidarity for Amash's bill, I believe that type of focussed approach has a stronger message than the protests that have occurred thus far, at least in my city. I just think having a practical goal, like targeting a certain piece of legislation, is the more effective measure.

I think black lives matter protests are silly. They contribute basically nothing to a solution. Its an obvious message to those that agree and I feel like people that dont agree will use this stuff to justify their views. Its basically symbolism that isnt going to make things better.

What would you recommend people do instead, guy who says people in the US should literally revolt?

One of the big problems behind racism is the large gap between the rich and the poor. So for starters it would be nice if you guys didnt vote on dementing status quo politicians. You could also protest for police reforms for example, or for increased police officer accountability.

The problem with generic protesting against racism is that it is detached from reality. From our comfortable homes it's easy to do, but for these cops its a different story. Day in day out they face the reality that African Americans commit more crimes. They should have a somewhat negative predisposition towards African Americans, because thats what experience teaches them. Its a human thing to happen. Many of us have the ability to understand that poverty and the social circumstances are the cause of this, but some people dont see this. Instead of telling them to stop having prejudices, to stop being human, we should explain this and we should fight for solving the cause of the problem. By just saying that these people cant feel the way they do, you only move us further from a solution.

[Mr_Bramboy]

There are no race issues in the United States, nor anywhere else in the world. Our only divide is the rich against the poor. Two weeks ago the media vindicated anyone who tried to go outside without wearing a mask. Now they are actively encouraging you to go out and protest. Any moment you're thinking about race is a moment you're not thinking about wealth inequality. Don't fall for it.

[gamevideo113]

There are no race issues in the United States, nor anywhere else in the world. Our only divide is the rich against the poor. Two weeks ago the media vindicated anyone who tried to go outside without wearing a mask. Now they are actively encouraging you to go out and protest. Any moment you're thinking about race is a moment you're not thinking about wealth inequality. Don't fall for it.

Well yes, but actually no

[fightinfrenchman]

You could also protest for police reforms for example, or for increased police officer accountability.

That's literally what is happening

[oats13]

We have a group of lads that come in to use the hall for what I believe is called 'break-dancing' and they listen to 'rap-music' on their 'boom-box'- nice bunch of lads but we do have to filter some of the music, after all this is a vicarage .

Most of what they called classic hip-hop was fine lyrically particularly the 'Daisy-age', one band stood out in particular for me who I presumed to be french - De La Soul, of the soul, how appropriate.

However the later stuff we really found to be not suitable for church oriented activities, indeed most of the rapping was actually mumbling, but this could have been the fault of the cassette tape maybe .

As for the rioters............... I have thought long and hard about this, they do seem to be a terribly frustrated bunch, I really feel that some self -reflection is required right now, I'm sure their local Pastor would be pleased to discuss any underlying problems .

[Mr_Bramboy]

There are no race issues in the United States, nor anywhere else in the world. Our only divide is the rich against the poor. Two weeks ago the media vindicated anyone who tried to go outside without wearing a mask. Now they are actively encouraging you to go out and protest. Any moment you're thinking about race is a moment you're not thinking about wealth inequality. Don't fall for it.

Well yes, but actually no

Why not?

[XeeleeFlower]

It's important to try to understand everyone's perspective, even cops.

The other side

Rioters and looters had already hit a mall. Police came and stood in front of it after getting people out. Things were "peaceful" then they quickly weren't.



Again, it seemed like the police were trying to keep their cool, but then shit hit the fan again.



Final straw



Leave or go to jail



Looting, setting a business on fire, people live above the business

[duckzilla]

It's important to try to understand everyone's perspective, even cops.

I think most of us understand the cops' perspective quite well. Of course, they have to protect buildings and civilians from violent rioters. No one denies that. And it is a tough job, that cops are well respected for! There is a lot of shit happening and many police officers have the shitty job of distinguishing between peaceful protesters and violent looters.

The problem is that many videos show that police fails to do this too often. Looking at the human nature, it is understandable that some cops lose their restraint and have an "us vs them" mentality. However, this is not the standard that we should apply here. The police is not any bunch of people. A police officer is not allowed to speak and act for himself, because he is the representative of the sovereignty. This is gives him a special role in society. This is an honor and privilege which he gives personal freedoms up for. And it is why police brutality cannot be accepted.

[RefluxSemantic]

There is an inherent conflict of interest when the police have to manage the protests agains the police. I feel like thats fueling some of these riots. People are protesting because they are angry at the police, and then the polices comes in to manage their protest (which is the job of the police) and that just fuels all the hatred. Your protesting agains the police, why would you listen to what they tell you to do in the first place? And when they use some violence, which is very common for these sorts of protests, it gets out of control so quickly because people are angry at the police. Its a shitty situation and some of what they are doing is ridiculous, but I feel sorry for the good cops.

[fightinfrenchman]

Police are the ones escalating these protests into violence

[Dolan]

From those vids, it looks like it's antifa activists who are escalating. They really want that Venezuelan revolution in the US.

[RefluxSemantic]

I wish I was omniscient just like the Ear and knew the facts of every single event in every single riot in every single American city, so that I could easily jump to the correct conclusion without needing to give it a second thought

[fightinfrenchman]

I wish I had the audacity to criticize the people protesting police brutality for not protesting police brutality

[Dolan]

What is the point in protesting against the police when you can do something much more effective, just talk to your elected mayor, who coordinates the local police.
A mayor needs popular support to stay in power, so it's much more effective to just pressure the mayor, rather than smash stores and burn police cars.
The police are just taking orders, after all, they're doing what someone else is telling them. Do you think police officers decide by themselves if they're going to deploy a full brigade to defend a store? They have superiors who make these calls.

[fightinfrenchman]

The police are just taking orders, after all, they're doing what someone else is telling them.

A famously valid excuse for violence

[RefluxSemantic]

Almost every single large scale protest attracts people who just want to riot. That's just a thing that happens. I've already seen a bunch of videos where some of the people participating in the riot start to do ridiculous stuff before the police started anything. It's ridiculous to claim that all of these riots are directly caused by the way the police acts. If you are doing that, you're either extremely stupid or just spewing misinformation to help your narrative. Some of these riots might be caused by the police, but that then again might have happened because people refused to listen to the police who told them to leave a certain area (ie a large public road). A lot of these videos are missing a lot of context, and it's honestly just stupid to conclude that 100% of these riots are caused by the police. There is most definitely at least some fault with the protestors, as it's completely possible to do nonviolent protests despite police brutality (just look at the hong kong protests).

I feel like part of the problem is that tensions inevitably rise in these big protests, and the police is there to manage things. But now when the police actually step in, it just fuels the riot because people are angry at the police. These protests are super hard to control for the police right now, and it's become pretty clear that at least in the USA protests like this need to be controlled.

Furthermore, I'm not necessarily criticizing people for protesting, but I agreed with another forum member here that these protests would be far more fruitful if people had actual concrete demands. I feel like much of this is just people protesting racism, which will not accomplish anything. And then you have people like incog and you, who fail to have any form of nuanced take on this and just spread ridiculous statements/oneliners around. That stuff is actively harmful, the world would become a better place if you just kept your unnuanced and biased opinions and predetermined narratives to yourself.

[fightinfrenchman]

If you think the police are there to "control" the protests, then you should be very mad at them because they're doing a terrible job at that

[Dolan]

The police are just taking orders, after all, they're doing what someone else is telling them.

A famously valid excuse for violence

Do you think they're hired to smash faces? I think they'd rather sit in their cars now and enjoy a donut. But since shit is happening, they're deployed.
And since lots of antifas are hoping to provoke them by jumping on their cars or setting them on fire, what are they supposed to do, take selfies?

[fightinfrenchman]

Nobody is forced to be a police officer. If they'd rather sit in their cars and eat donuts they could quit their jobs and do something productive with their lives. Instead, they are choosing to escalate protests into violence

[martinspjuth]

Police are the ones escalating these protests into violence

They are partly at fault, yes. The rioters are partly at fault too. It isn't the police who are looting and pillaging.