On the subject of race

[fightinfrenchman]

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even less that removing the mining mechanic is a good idea.

This has nothing to do with racism. Why do people keep saying this

Because that's how all of this started ? With some people like me saying that it is a bad change, and some others (like comrad), claiming that we have to pay respect to the natives because there is too much racism.

The developers didn't say anything about racism. And do you even know how the change actually works

I'm not talking about DE here, I'm talking about ESOC and this thread. And you can easily see the link between mining and the "racism" drama.

The link is that, after the devs said they wanted to be more historically accurate, people on here starting complaining that the changes were political, then everyone got pissed. For some reason this lie just keeps getting repeated and believed

What makes you think it's a lie ?

It's not based on anything in reality. It's just something one person posted and others started mindlessly repeating and getting angry about

[[Armag] diarouga]

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The handful of you guys really need to exchange phone numbers and discuss this.

This. Please.

It's sort of like being a dick to someone in what is considered to be a legitimate issue these days and asking them to take it on the chin. I don't agree.

ESOC is a platform where REAL people gather and we have a genuine social connection with one another. In my social circles I don't want racism nor do I want my peers to be subject to that. It's not hard.

This thread is important because it's an important topic. idk what else to say

Idfk if it's that important tbh. I'm not going to convince comrad that the shitstorm, although it was offensive, was mostly a consquence of his previous messages and he's not going to convince me that the community is racist, and even less that removing the mining mechanic is a good idea.

I don't understand how you can judge whether or not someone else's problems are important or not.

Nice strawman. I'm not saying that his problems aren't important, I'm saying that it's not important (or useful/good) to have this kind of thread in ESOC.
Nothing constructive is going to come out of it.

[[Armag] diarouga]

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even less that removing the mining mechanic is a good idea.

This has nothing to do with racism. Why do people keep saying this

Because that's how all of this started ? With some people like me saying that it is a bad change, and some others (like comrad), claiming that we have to pay respect to the natives because there is too much racism.

The developers didn't say anything about racism. And do you even know how the change actually works

I'm not talking about DE here, I'm talking about ESOC and this thread. And you can easily see the link between mining and the "racism" drama.

The link is that, after the devs said they wanted to be more historically accurate, people on here starting complaining that the changes were political, then everyone got pissed. For some reason this lie just keeps getting repeated and believed

What makes you think it's a lie ?

It's not based on anything in reality. It's just something one person posted and others started mindlessly repeating and getting angry about

It's based on some things though.
1) Apparently they had issues with Korean people (ie political issues), so it's not unlikely that it's the same here
2) They only talked about the native changes regarding history, and that's most likely because natives got persecuted and they wanted to make a political move by listening to the cultural experts.
3) They would said that it is for historical reasons even if it were for political reasons

As I said to gibson, let's see if they make other changes, and I guess we'll know if it was politically motivated or not.

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[fightinfrenchman]

It is true that if what the developers said was a lie and the speculation of ESOC users is correct, then you are right. That doesn't really mean that much to me though

[[Armag] diarouga]

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The handful of you guys really need to exchange phone numbers and discuss this.

This. Please.

It's sort of like being a dick to someone in what is considered to be a legitimate issue these days and asking them to take it on the chin. I don't agree.

ESOC is a platform where REAL people gather and we have a genuine social connection with one another. In my social circles I don't want racism nor do I want my peers to be subject to that. It's not hard.

This thread is important because it's an important topic. idk what else to say

Idfk if it's that important tbh. I'm not going to convince comrad that the shitstorm, although it was offensive, was mostly a consquence of his previous messages and he's not going to convince me that the community is racist, and even less that removing the mining mechanic is a good idea.

I don't understand how you can judge whether or not someone else's problems are important or not.

Nice strawman. I'm not saying that his problems aren't important, I'm saying that it's not important (or useful/good) to have this kind of thread in ESOC.
Nothing constructive is going to come out of it.

It isn't a straw man, it is the crux of the thread. esoc is more than just a gaming forum, we are a social group. if some of us are facing unfair problems on the forums then it needs to be addressed

if you dont care about the human aspect of this issue and just aoe3, then you should still care. Microsoft will blacklist esoc if we are unable to provide something as basic as a hate free platform.

this thread is constructive because it addresses an issue that has already driven users away

1) I wouldn't say that I don't care about the human aspect, but I come for aoe3 (which is why I don't go in the off topic section).
2) Microsoft won't blacklist ESOC
3) Adressing an issue is not enough to be constructive, you need to find solutions, and I haven't read a single suggestion yet. Besides, the mods were 99% discussing the issue and trying to find solutions before comrad created this thread. Actually, this kind of thread could potentially scare Microsoft away from ESOC if anything.

[vardar]

Just tell the offender to fuck off and die of cancer. This seems like the most rational solution to the problem.

Really gets nowhere and probably makes him even more resentful/hateful. There’s better ways to go around it.

Also, cancer is not something to joke about like that. Really no different than telling someone to go kill themselves. Let’s be productive

rofl you gotta learn how to laugh at life

Laugh and tell someone to die of cancer xD

[007Salt]

@vardar Now you get it!

[007Salt]

@vardar Found an example for you of how to handle racism. These people tell that guy to piss off and they don't cry about it.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Funny thing is that's it actually similar to communities asking white people to apologize.

[Squamiger]

Funny thing is that's it actually similar to communities asking white people to apologize.

that video is actually nothing like, for example, asking the US government to apologize for interning Japanese Americans in WW2, or genociding Native Americans, or asking institutions like Georgetown to apologize for owning and selling enslaved Africans, or asking the French government to recognize and apologize for massacreing Algerians. Notice how in all these actual concrete cases no one is asking "white people" to do anything. it's completely bullshit to compare the two if you have any kind of nuanced understanding of history

[Garja]

So much time wasted that could be used to become better at the game.

[Riotcoke]

So much time wasted that could be used to become better at the game.

Or be a true god like yourself.

[Squamiger]

oh believe me this time im wasting isn't time i'd spend getting good at the game, it's time i'd spend writing my thesis

[Riotcoke]

@Squamiger Good Luck with your PhD

[forgrin]

I looked back through some of the threads where this started and I think I was the first person to use the word "racism." So I guess @Garja can blame me for all the wasted time lol.

[Papist]

It's very distressing to see how willing both staff and community members have been to ignore and minimize what is easily the most despicable behavior I've seen in the five years I've been on the forum. How is it that people who troll the forums or quit a tournament get banned for months (if not permanently), but people whose sole "contribution" to this community is directing racial slurs at other community members get a slap on the wrist, and even then only when they do it incessantly? Seems like some misguided priorities tbh.

[fightinfrenchman]

It's very distressing to see how willing both staff and community members have been to ignore and minimize what is easily the most despicable behavior I've seen in the five years I've been on the forum. How is it that people who troll the forums or quit a tournament get banned for months (if not permanently), but people whose sole "contribution" to this community is directing racial slurs at other community members get a slap on the wrist, and even then only when they do it incessantly? Seems like some misguided priorities tbh.

Shouldn't have quit being a mod tbh ngl

[007Salt]

Someone said a mean word to someone on the internet? Is this what got this party started?

[Papist]

Someone said a mean word to someone on the internet? Is this what got this party started?

Calling someone a racial slur is not the same thing as using a curse word, and the user in question did it multiple times despite being told it was offensive. And then when he was called out, people like diarouga (who has a record of calling people racial slurs himself), raced to defend him. So the situation is a bit worse than you make it sound.

[TNT333]

Conservative estimates would be 60 million died due to Mao and 40 million due to stalin/lenin. Makes Hitler look mild.

One major reason the soviets don't get as bad a repuation as the Nazis is because they helped the Allies defeat Hitler.

It wouldve been the other way around if the Allies helped Hitler defeat the Soviets due to the fear of communism at that time. Churchill also once vowed to stand by Mussolini against Communism.

[007Salt]

Someone said a mean word to someone on the internet? Is this what got this party started?

Calling someone a racial slur is not the same thing as using a curse word, and the user in question did it multiple times despite being told it was offensive. And then when he was called out, people like diarouga (who has a record of calling people racial slurs himself), raced to defend him. So the situation is a bit worse than you make it sound.

Well ya man it sucks but just stop and think about what you all are doing.... You're motivating them to keep doing it cuz the reaction makes it funny to them.

It's a lot different being white cuz there's no such racial slur that exists that would cause me to give a damn but one thing I know about bullying is you hit back instead of complaining about it.

[JaguarProwlerKnoob]

Conservative estimates would be 60 million died due to Mao and 40 million due to stalin/lenin. Makes Hitler look mild.

One major reason the soviets don't get as bad a repuation as the Nazis is because they helped the Allies defeat Hitler.

It wouldve been the other way around if the Allies helped Hitler defeat the Soviets due to the fear of communism at that time. Churchill also once vowed to stand by Mussolini against Communism.

Doesn’t make either right. But it does mean that ESOC should cancel the upcoming finals otherwise we know they truly don’t care about racism.

[voigt1240]

Why do we keep crying about this subject, The person who used racial slurs already got banned for a week. And in response to the french guy's use of the word. He said he was ignorant to the offensiveness of the word. Surely we can't keep being offended by this.

[gibson]

I'm cancelling esoc