On the subject of race

[fightinfrenchman]

I think getting rid of walls is a really stupid change but I guess it's good because it doesn't make weird people angry for no reason

[gibson]

. . . there are very few people from Europe who think that this kind of change is good, let alone from Eastern countries or Asia.

rather most people are simply ambivalent to the changes since they don't yet know how they impact the gameplay?

What diarouga is talking about here is the type of change. As in changing the game for political reasons. It was not a comment about balance (which yes we are all *insert big word here* about).

As for the debate if it was made for political reasons or not, we’ve all expressed our opinion in the matter so let’s not get back into it. Some of you will just have to accept that you’re wrong. This isn’t necessarily directed at you cometk, I can’t remember if you expressed an opinion in the matter. I’m sure I’ve triggered some other soyboy though.

[dansil92]

I remember when esoc was about flaming people for drop-tricking rated games and smurfing tournament games...

[forgrin]

You are seeing this from your American perspective. You guys just don't have a culture anymore and just blended everything into this amorphous thing. And you forgot that cultures have always had their own ways of building stereotypes about other cultures, many of them "offensive". It's part of how one culture sees another. It's a natural phenomenon.

But now that you've built this big shopping center country called the USA you want to impose your globalised multicultural melting pot moralism onto the rest of the world. And it doesn't work, because you're working against nature. Cultures are naturally mutually exclusive, they exist by being different and exclusive and by seeing each other as separate and different. But you want to blend them all into your melting pot and turn everything into this homogenised, moralistic cultural mayonnaise. It's not gonna work. Cultures will continue to mistrust each other and mock each other, despite all this American moralistic bullshit.

So the obvious solution is a white ethnostate for the whites (let them keep Europe I guess?) and a separate but equal ethnostate for each other culture.

Do you realise you are literally talking like a full-on Nazi white supremacist? You sound like David Duke. Next you'll be enunciating the benefits of Lebensraum.

[voigt1240]

I feel like everyone is misinterpreting everyone

[forgrin]

I feel like this quote is kinda hard to misinterpret...

Cultures are naturally mutually exclusive, they exist by being different and exclusive and by seeing each other as separate and different. But you want to blend them all into your melting pot and turn everything into this homogenised, moralistic cultural mayonnaise. It's not gonna work.

This is almost verbatim what white supremacists say.

[Robb_Killer]

People do understand each other very well. It's just that competition for victimisation is the obscenity of our time. And ESOC like everything else, cannot escape his age.

[forgrin]

I feel like everyone is misinterpreting everyone

I don't think anything is being misinterpreted. If you can read what Dolan writes and no alarm bells go off, you might want to check your history books.

[voigt1240]

He is saying there is difference between people and cultures so conflicts will always exist where ideas clash. I don't see how he is advocating for a fully white ethnostate. He is living in a quite multicultural nation as is, just not to the degree of the US.

[n0el]

He is saying there is difference between people and cultures so conflicts will always exist where ideas clash. I don't see how he is advocating for a fully white ethnostate. He is living in a quite multicultural nation as is, just not to the degree of the US.

I think he’s referencing past Dolan remarks, such as Muslims being terrorists and that they shouldn’t be allowed in Europe. Or that Africans have smaller brains so they are naturally inferior to Europeans.

[forgrin]

He is saying there is difference between people and cultures so conflicts will always exist where ideas clash. I don't see how he is advocating for a fully white ethnostate. He is living in a quite multicultural nation as is, just not to the degree of the US.

He says that different cultures are "mutually exclusive." That's one of the core beliefs of white nationalism. Not even taking into account his past comments. PS if you think his country is multicultural, it's ~90% majority. Where I live there is no ethnic majority.

[voigt1240]

I had the impression romani was more diverse, guess i was wrong in that regard. At which % is defined as multicultural is more or less not set in stone. But i can't speak for him on his core beliefs.

[Papist]

I had the impression romani was more diverse, guess i was wrong in that regard. At which % is defined as multicultural is more or less not set in stone. But i can't speak for him on his core beliefs.

There's no need to speak for him, he makes it abundantly clear who he is every time he posts. The guy is a racist and an anti-Semite who once ragequit the forums because a mod deleted a bigoted coronavirus meme he liked.

[comradecommissar]

The one thing that sticks out to me from this thread and the threads in which I was racially abused is @[Armag] diarouga and other white peoples absolute self conviction that they understand and know racism better than people of colour.

At the very least, some humility is in order? But I just chanced upon a thread where Diarouga defends the use of the n word (something which would have gotten him perma banned in most non white supremacist forums on the internet and ended up with him getting his face bashed in person) so I guess he's too far gone for any kind of reason.

[voigt1240]

This is not a White Thing, i have experienced servere racism in turkey myself because im White, blond with green eyes

[[Armag] diarouga]

You are seeing this from your American perspective. You guys just don't have a culture anymore and just blended everything into this amorphous thing. And you forgot that cultures have always had their own ways of building stereotypes about other cultures, many of them "offensive". It's part of how one culture sees another. It's a natural phenomenon.

But now that you've built this big shopping center country called the USA you want to impose your globalised multicultural melting pot moralism onto the rest of the world. And it doesn't work, because you're working against nature. Cultures are naturally mutually exclusive, they exist by being different and exclusive and by seeing each other as separate and different. But you want to blend them all into your melting pot and turn everything into this homogenised, moralistic cultural mayonnaise. It's not gonna work. Cultures will continue to mistrust each other and mock each other, despite all this American moralistic bullshit.

So the obvious solution is a white ethnostate for the whites (let them keep Europe I guess?) and a separate but equal ethnostate for each other culture.

Do you realise you are literally talking like a full-on Nazi white supremacist? You sound like David Duke. Next you'll be enunciating the benefits of Lebensraum.

I don't want to go in another 10 page debate, but the NA countries are multiculturalists. There are different group, with different cultures living in the same country, and to be fair it doesn't work well if we look at the current situation...

European countries, although they are becoming more and more multiculturalists are simply not multiculturalist countries. For centuaries, immigration was possible and worked totally fine (regardless of the origin/skin colour) as long as the immigrants respected the country's culture/values etc.
It has nothing to do with skin colour, and we don't want to build a "white country", just a country where the population is united around a culture.

Your comment just shows that you can't really understand the other perspectives. You're lacking a lot of tolerance frankly. It's fine to disagree and think that the NA multiculturalism is superior to the European system, but claiming that Europeans are racist because they don't think like shows a lack of critical thinking.

[Snuden]

Yea... Here in Spain I have to pay more for my dope because I have blonde hair.

I’ll make a thread about my traumas later.

[Snuden]

You are seeing this from your American perspective. You guys just don't have a culture anymore and just blended everything into this amorphous thing. And you forgot that cultures have always had their own ways of building stereotypes about other cultures, many of them "offensive". It's part of how one culture sees another. It's a natural phenomenon.

But now that you've built this big shopping center country called the USA you want to impose your globalised multicultural melting pot moralism onto the rest of the world. And it doesn't work, because you're working against nature. Cultures are naturally mutually exclusive, they exist by being different and exclusive and by seeing each other as separate and different. But you want to blend them all into your melting pot and turn everything into this homogenised, moralistic cultural mayonnaise. It's not gonna work. Cultures will continue to mistrust each other and mock each other, despite all this American moralistic bullshit.

So the obvious solution is a white ethnostate for the whites (let them keep Europe I guess?) and a separate but equal ethnostate for each other culture.

Do you realise you are literally talking like a full-on Nazi white supremacist? You sound like David Duke. Next you'll be enunciating the benefits of Lebensraum.

I don't want to go in another 10 page debate, but the NA countries are multiculturalists. There are different group, with different cultures living in the same country, and to be fair it doesn't work well if we look at the current situation...

European countries, although they are becoming more and more multiculturalists are simply not multiculturalist countries. For centuaries, immigration was possible and worked totally fine (regardless of the origin/skin colour) as long as the immigrants respected the country's culture/values etc.
It has nothing to do with skin colour, and we don't want to build a "white country", just a country where the population is united around a culture.

Your comment just shows that you can't really understand the other perspectives. You're lacking a lot of tolerance frankly. It's fine to disagree and think that the NA multiculturalism is superior to the European system, but claiming that Europeans are racist because they don't think like shows a lack of critical thinking.

If I may add... And without homo parades.

[[Armag] diarouga]

The one thing that sticks out to me from this thread and the threads in which I was racially abused is @[Armag] diarouga and other white peoples absolute self conviction that they understand and know racism better than people of colour.

Again, I'm sorry you're feeling people are racist toward you, but this is a totalitarian point of view. There's something called the presumption of innocence in democratic countries, and the victim can't just say "I'm victim of racism I know better than you all, shut up" and hope the accused while get sentenced just like that.
The accused has the right to defend himself against the accusation (although today, it's less and less true).
People who feel racially abused aren't always racially abused.

[Snuden]

“Abused” also seem like a strong word to use.

[comradecommissar]

The one thing that sticks out to me from this thread and the threads in which I was racially abused is @[Armag] diarouga and other white peoples absolute self conviction that they understand and know racism better than people of colour.

Again, I'm sorry you're feeling people are racist toward you, but this is a totalitarian point of view. There's something called the presumption of innocence in democratic countries, and the victim can't just say "I'm victim of racism I know better than you all, shut up" and hope the accused while get sentenced just like that.
The accused has the right to defend himself against the accusation (although today, it's less and less true).
People who feel racially abused aren't always racially abused.

Oh no. This isn't about me anymore. Its about the shit you spew in general.

[forgrin]

@[Armag] diarouga
It works just fine in Canada, obviously not everything is 100% smooth but at least we're not trying to push the problem under the rug (or back out of the house) like it seems Europe is intent on doing.

Interesting that you say I lack tolerance, where you previously state that NA is a more tolerant society (due to being multicultural we logically are more tolerant of differences). If anything your statement just says that Europeans don't tolerate other cultures.

I can understand your perspective just fine, I just think it is bigoted and close-minded, and totally inapplicable to the NA situation because of historical injustices. It's not like France or the rest of Europe isn't guilty of these issues, you're just pretending it never happened, which is easier because the ancestors of your slaves live in the Americas instead of next to you.

If you want to claim that in Europe, being a bigot is socially acceptable and therefore what you say isn't racist, then sure, whatever. Doesn't make your statements not racist to other people. Try a bit of empathy?

[knusch]

the ancestors of your slaves live in the Americas instead of next to you

for real now?

[forgrin]

The one thing that sticks out to me from this thread and the threads in which I was racially abused is @[Armag] diarouga and other white peoples absolute self conviction that they understand and know racism better than people of colour.

Again, I'm sorry you're feeling people are racist toward you, but this is a totalitarian point of view. There's something called the presumption of innocence in democratic countries, and the victim can't just say "I'm victim of racism I know better than you all, shut up" and hope the accused while get sentenced just like that.
The accused has the right to defend himself against the accusation (although today, it's less and less true).
People who feel racially abused aren't always racially abused.

1- This isn't a court of law, there is no criminal charge for saying some rude shit online. Also nobody has accused you of anything other than saying racist things, which isn't the end of the world. Maybe you are a bit racist, I'm sure you can live with that.

2- The only thing @comradecommissar said is that they might have a better understanding of racial pressures because as a PoC they are subjected to them. Do you really think that you, as a white dude in a white country, have more relevant experience or knowledge on that topic?

[[Armag] diarouga]

It works just fine in Canada, obviously not everything is 100% smooth but at least we're not trying to push the problem under the rug (or back out of the house) like it seems Europe is intent on doing.

It seems to work fine in Canada true, but it doesn't work fine at all in the US, and Canada is much less multiculturalist than the US.

Interesting that you say I lack tolerance, where you previously state that NA is a more tolerant society (due to being multicultural we logically are more tolerant of differences). If anything your statement just says that Europeans don't tolerate other cultures.

I guess that's what you don't understand. According to you the only way to tolerate other cultures is to build a multiculturalist country where everybody has his own culture (which results in the communities getting split more often than not).
The idea of assimilation is that you can keep your culture in your private life, but you learn and respect the country's culture publically. That's how you build a country, you bring people together around a culture and values. That means that everybody can come to the country, they're just asked to respect the country's culture, that's not that hard.

It's funny coming from a Canadian guy by the way. In Canada, you ask people to prove they're riche enough to come to Canada. In France, we don't ask people anything, and we give them benefits, as well as the best health care system in the world, when they come. We just ask them to learn and respect the French culture.
But sure, our system is different, so we're all intolerant.