On the subject of race

[iNcog]

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[iNcog]

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[[Armag] diarouga]

There is a point to be made about how white people cannot understand what racism is, because the official institutions genuinely favor them. Similarly men cannot truly empathize with sexism because they don't experience it.

Here we go again. I have no clue because I'm a white man.
Thus, it doesn't matter if I feel offended, but if a Pakistani dude feels offended it does matter because I cannot understand it. That's the double standard I'm talking about. If you're a white man, your feelings don't matter, and it's okay to be offensive toward white people.

And colonialism basically made Europe extremely rich by fucking over the rest of the world's nations.

So what ? Because people colonialized the world 300 years ago, people have the right to be offend me while I don't have the right to hurt their feeling and should just shut up because I'm a clueless white man ?

I highly doubt that Comrad actually harbor's any enmity towards people with white skin color.

One could also say "I highly doubt that Ivan actually harbor's any enmity towards Pakistani people" backed with nothing.

If there is a post that I missed then feel free to link

I worked hard enough to beat that system. Go read about racism in academia, you fucking prick. It's endemic. The system tried to stop me. I beat it, so fuck off.

[iNcog]

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[[Armag] diarouga]

Sounds like you got called out for your shit. That isn't really offensive or inappropriate, it's a genuine point to make.

And comrade also got called out for his shit. That wasn't offensive or inappropriate, just a genuine point to make. Still, he made a big post explained how and why he felt offended, because he knows that it's normal thing to do when you're not white, and that some people (like you), while always defend and sympathize with them no matter what.
Meanwhile, I'm white and I can't do that, because "I got called out for my shit". Double standard, that's what I said

You have not been subject to racism like others have, so who are you to discuss whether or not someone else's problems are legitimate?

You just claimed that my problems are not legitimate and that "I got called out for my shit". Who are you to do that ?
There are plenty of people who aren't racist but go into depression because they're constantly called racists by some people. It's true I don't know how it feels to be victim of racism, but I do know how it feels to be unfairly called "racist" or ignored because I'm white.
I don't give a shit about discussions on the internet, but I sometimes feel really bad when I'm publically getting called racist by extreme left people in real life for simply disagreeing with them. I'm not asking for sympathy not empathy, because I know that SJW and "antiracists" won't sympathize with me, and I've learned how to handle that over time although I always feel offended.
I'm just trying to show to open minded people that there are a lot of double standards nowadays, and I'm not going to shut up when someone calls me racist.

Calling it offensive is honestly ............ just proving the point that you are racist.

See, I'm offended because I'm getting called racist by a guy who's never experienced getting called racist, and it just proves that I'm racist.

[iNcog]

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[[Armag] diarouga]

Your offense at being called a prick is genuine but honestly, who cares.

Exactly what I said in my previous post. When comrade gets called a prick it's racist, but when I do it's genuine so who cares.
Sounds like you're more interested in calling people who disagree with you "pricks" than admitting that both sides posted offensive comments.

You aren't being called a prick because of the color of your skin, you're being called a prick because you are insensitive to the issues of others.

So you and comrade are also pricks because you're insensitive to my issue ?

Comrad has not been anything but kind to me, a white person.

Ye, pretty sure he would have been kind to me as well if I agreed with him. However, I disagreed with him on the mining change, so he wasn't kind to me.

[iNcog]

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[voigt1240]

Show hidden quotes

Neither persons behavior was approriate.

Hey man, I'll bite. Please explain to me quite clearly in what way Comrad was not appropriate. Because don artie's post is a dribble of shit.

Well for one puts all white people under the same umbrella.

Is that all?

There is a point to be made about how white people cannot understand what racism is, because the official institutions genuinely favor them. Similarly men cannot truly empathize with sexism because they don't experience it. Sympathize yes, empathize no.

And colonialism basically made Europe extremely rich by fucking over the rest of the world's nations. The USA did the same thing. I highly doubt that Comrad actually harbor's any enmity towards people with white skin color. If there is a post that I missed then feel free to link, but I honestly think that this is a tenuous allegation at best. Noting that, complaining about white people being racist is not the same as putting white people under the same umbrella.

So again, not really convinced by this one.

Why do you and comrade keep saying white people can't understand racism. As i said in a previous post i have experienced severe racism myself as a white man in turkey. Saying white people can't understand racism is in itself racist, no? No one here is holier than thou, including you. And how can he not habor any emnity towards white people when he keeps saying the white society is against him.

[iNcog]

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[iNcog]

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[edeholland]

You, indeed, do not have a clue because you are a white man. You have lived in France, which is a society that is slanted in favor of white, French men. You cannot understand racism, having never been subject to it. Congratulations on finally understanding this basic point.

Wtf.

We have several users asking Comrad to leave the forums because Comrad is too vocal about the racism he is subject to.

How I interpret don_artie's post, which seems to be what several users think, is the following:

- Comrade don't seem to care about AoE3 at all, so why even be on this forum
- He makes an attack on the person instead of on the subject
- He created a narrative with his personal life while that was not necessary for discussing the subject
- He put himself above others with his intelligence/wealth

I'm not saying I agree with those points, but those seems to be the complaints and reason people tell him to find another forum. Saying he is "too vocal" is not the (whole) truth, I don't see anyone saying comrade is "too vocal".

[iNcog]

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[edeholland]

You, indeed, do not have a clue because you are a white man.

Wtf.

Why are you taking a single line of that post out of its context? I explained quite clearly the dynamic that I was alluding to.

Edited the post and added the full paragraph.

[voigt1240]

Show hidden quotes

Neither persons behavior was approriate.

Hey man, I'll bite. Please explain to me quite clearly in what way Comrad was not appropriate. Because don artie's post is a dribble of shit.

Well for one puts all white people under the same umbrella.

Is that all?

There is a point to be made about how white people cannot understand what racism is, because the official institutions genuinely favor them. Similarly men cannot truly empathize with sexism because they don't experience it. Sympathize yes, empathize no.

And colonialism basically made Europe extremely rich by fucking over the rest of the world's nations. The USA did the same thing. I highly doubt that Comrad actually harbor's any enmity towards people with white skin color. If there is a post that I missed then feel free to link, but I honestly think that this is a tenuous allegation at best. Noting that, complaining about white people being racist is not the same as putting white people under the same umbrella.

So again, not really convinced by this one.

Why do you and comrade keep saying white people can't understand racism. As i said in a previous post i have experienced severe racism myself as a white man in turkey. Saying white people can't understand racism is in itself racist, no? No one here is holier than thou, including you. And how can he not habor any emnity towards white people when he keeps saying the white society is against him.

You don't live in Turkey? Sure you've had a taste of racism. it sucks doesn't it? Now imagine living in Turkey and being unable to leave the country because you work there, have family there and Turks constantly tell you that they aren't actually being racist and that you're just too sensitive.

Harboring enmity against racists is not the same as harboring enmity against white people.

You guys are pretty good at mental gymnastics.

If it is not about emnety about white people. Why the need to continually go back to white skin color instead of racism which is the real problem. The thing is to just tell them to fuck off, works like a charm.

[iNcog]

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[[Armag] diarouga]

Uh, if you don't want to be called a racist then you can start by not calling umeu a nigger.

Sounds like you're out of arguments so you need to resort to ad personam. That's classic.

I've never written a post about the rouga-Umeu drama because I hoped people would forget it after 4 years, but since people keep bringing it up as an ad personam when they run out of arguments, I guess I'll explain what happened :

Umeu was harassing me on eso and ESOC that week (I don't remember the exact reason but that was after a childish ego thing, linked to smurfing or something). He kept flaming me, trying to be as offensive as possible on the forums.
I was rather young, and much more sensitive than today so although it was on the internet, I was getting seriously offended (I wouldn't really care today).
I reported all his posts hour after hour, but of course it takes hours for mods to lock a thread, and we were both having an immature behaviour so even if I hoped he would get banned, they couldn't ban him and not me.
Still, after like 3 threads locked and him flaming me, I got super mad and offended, especially as I had real life issues back then and Umeu was getting personal, plus aoe3 was very important to me. I wanted him to feel as mad and offended as me, so I called him a nigga, because I knew that it would hurt him and hoped it would make him feel as offended as I was.
As a Tarantino fan, I didn't even know that "nigga" was a racist word btw because it's a common word in his movies, so that wasn't even racist to me.

With hindsight, that was a mistake, and I shouldn't have done that.
Today, I would have ignored that retard, but it shows that people care when people from minorities feel offended, but they don't give a shit about the "clueless white people".

I honestly don't care about your opinion on the matter, you're a prick. I just want to defend my honor in front of ESOC. And my point still stands, why should white people accept to be offended and shut the fuck up while people from minority have the right to attack my honor ?

[comradecommissar]

You, indeed, do not have a clue because you are a white man. You have lived in France, which is a society that is slanted in favor of white, French men. You cannot understand racism, having never been subject to it. Congratulations on finally understanding this basic point.

Wtf.

We have several users asking Comrad to leave the forums because Comrad is too vocal about the racism he is subject to.

How I interpret don_artie's post, which seems to be what several users think, is the following:

- Comrade don't seem to care about AoE3 at all, so why even be on this forum
- He makes an attack on the person instead of on the subject
- He created a narrative with his personal life while that was not necessary for discussing the subject
- He put himself above others with his intelligence/wealth

I'm not saying I agree with those points, but those seems to be the complaints and reason people tell him to find another forum. Saying he is "too vocal" is not the (whole) truth, I don't see anyone saying comrade is "too vocal".

-I do care about AoE3, but I care more about racism. I think that's fair.
-Telling someone that they don't understand racism because they're not white is not a personal attack.
-My personal life as a PoC is relevant to my understanding of race and misrepresentation. It is part of the subject. This is true for all PoC. Our views on race can never be detached from our experiences of racialization.
-I responded by mentioning my education and job when I was subjected to racism by Ivan and told to leave the US if I hate a country "that had given me so much." What am I expected to do when someone uses my race and makes assumptions about my life and background as someone from Pakistan to attack me? Not set the record straight?

Im not responding to edeholland here, but rather just the general points being brought up.

Also, even if all those things about me were true and indefensible, people seem to be contrasting it to my experience of racism and creating some kind of equivalence. Every post here attacking me starts with "I don't agree with what Ivan did BUT" and that sounds like you're trying to justify racist attacks or saying that what Im accused of and what Ivan so clearly did are somehow comparable. Serving as an apologist for racism is messed up.

[iNcog]

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[[Armag] diarouga]

Final point to make before I go elsewhere in life than this thread.

Yes, please do.

We have several users asking Comrad to leave the forums because Comrad is too vocal about the racism he is subject to.

That's one way to put it. The other way is that he doesn't post about aoe3, offends people and then cries because people offend him.

If you're asking someone to leave because you don't want to hear about them complain about being the victim of racism, newsflash, you're being racist.

Nope. I want to hear about DE, tournaments, strategy and discuss with friends (though I don't have that many on ESOC nowadays). I don't want to hear people complain about being the victim of racism.

welcome to real life

This is an aoe3 forum.

[comradecommissar]

@iNcog I was just going to tell you to give up. Explaining racism to people here is kind of pointless. White people don't get it. Thats it. I stand by that.

[iNcog]

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[[Armag] diarouga]

I'm not out of arguments, I just don't care to waste my time on you anymore given that you pointedly ignore everything that's being said to you in this thread. @Diarouga

Of course you are.

I told you that I get offended when I get called "a racist" unfairly. What's your answer ? "But that's because you're racist white man ! [Insert ad personam attack]"

[iNcog]

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[iNcog]

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