From here: viewtopic.php?f=315&t=16266&p=480342#p480342
I do agree that there is an issue with people’s lack of imagination due to the prevalence of sex. As a romantic, this does bother me. An imagination is so beautiful and one who can titillate my own in a sexual way can just take my money (it’s so hard for me to find, what I consider to be, good porn). However, as a realist, does an imagination really matter? As we move ever closer to merging ourselves with AI, is imagination really all that important? Transhumanism is our future and perhaps having a lack of imagination is important to that being the reality. Sure, some imagination is required to achieve those steps, but how much of imagination is really needed? Is it that important to have a “sexual” imagination? Is it tied into “general” imagination? If so, how much? If not, why make sexual imagination so mystical?Dolan wrote:When it comes to trading sex, ok, this has been going on for millennia, but we managed to turn this into a whole industry that degrades any illusion of sex. If something is widely accessible, even for free, then there's not much left for imagination to discover. And not much motivation to go out and seek it. There's also the thing that we're commercialising things that used to be part of relationships between people. The idea that you could rent someone to pretend they care about you and put on an act of affection for you is degrading for both, imo. It's lame and it also conveys the impression that there's nothing really special about relationships between people, at least nothing that couldn't be turned into a paid service.
The specialness in relationships between people is the feeling of wanting to share your life with said person. With regards to a romantic partnership, of course sex can also be part of the equation, but I don’t feel that that’s the part that makes it special. Relationships are transactions. I will be there for you and you will be there for me. You give trust and you get trust. You give love and you receive love. Sometimes the relationship is one sided, other times it ebbs and flows. Everything in life is a transaction. I am spending time writing this because I enjoy conversing with people on this site. You get to read my thoughts, I get to share them.
I can’t really tell if you’re okay with the buying/selling of sex or not. You concede that it’s been going on since pretty much the entirety of our human existence, yet you also claim that it’s degrading for both. I fail to see how it’s degrading for both. I know people who have sold sex and I know people who have purchased sex. Neither party has said that they felt degraded. The buyers (one of which is a friend of mine) told me that they enjoyed it and would recommend it while the sellers have all told me that they enjoy their job. Of course, just like any job, there are complaints about different things. In the case of sex work, these things tend to be that the buyers weren’t respectful of boundaries, had poor hygiene, things like that. Never has any sex worker that I have met felt degraded by what they do. Rather, there’s a sense of empowerment that comes with making someone feel amazing. On the buyers side, I’ve read and heard countless stories about how great it is to have good sex, how they enjoyed not needing to have small talk, no pressure to perform, etc. The only complaint that I’ve heard from buyers is that they wish they could’ve lasted longer. No one has said they felt degraded.
There is a very small niche of people who do pay for the illusion that someone cares about them. The buyer and seller of said niche both know and understand what is happening. The seller (if they are ethical, some sadly aren’t) make things very clear up front of what to expect from them and what they expect in return. The thing is though, when you spend a lot of time with someone, there are often some sort of feelings that evolve regardless if the initial understanding was one of buy/sell; thus, people do often actually end up caring for one another in buy/sell sexual relationships, even if it’s non-romantic. There are some sex workers who end the “relationship” enitrely if it reaches that point while others end their buy/sell relationship with their clients and become just friends with them. Sellers often help buyers in areas such as self confidence, which helps the buyers in their “real world” life to perform better at work, build and retain relationships with others, and even feel confident to pursue and retain a romantic relationship with someone.
I do agree that there is a problem in our society that has caused so many people to feel disconnected from everyone else. It’s the whole “so connected that it creates disconnect” thing that I think I’ve talked about on here in years past. We will continue to be emotionally disconnected from people as we become ever more connected. Your issue lies with the internet. The sex industry, and those who are part of it, are simply filling a void. People crave connection so much that they are willing to pay for it. Look at the dating websites of old and now dating apps. People pay (with either their money, personal data, watching ads) to meet someone. Hell, people used to pay for advertisements in the paper (anyone know of newspapers) to meet another like minded single in their area. There is absolutely nothing wrong with paying for affection.We've gone so far deep with this process of degradation of human relations, that there are people looking for affection by subbing to some streamers just to get their names mentioned.
So this thing with OnlyFans is just making it official: "ok, guys, I know you're hopeless, so just subscribe to my stream for your daily dose of dopamine that you're going to get by seeing my meat spread out on screen". Instead of solving the problem and creating the conditions that could make people less lonely and more likely to get into relationships, where they wouldn't need to use porn much (if at all), we're just incentivising them to subscribe and compensate their lack of relationships with having sex with images in their heads.
Some people on OnlyFans actually engage with their subscribers. Others make it clear what to expect from them and don’t have meaningful conversations with buyers. Ethical sex workers (who are the majority) do these things. Unethical ones, such as the recent Bella Thorne scandal, do not. Not all sex workers who are on OF are “spreading their meat”. There is a huge variety of individuals on there who range from basic toe pics to full on vid porn. Even if everyone was “spreading their meat”, why does that matter? If there’s a demand for something, then there’s going to be people willing to supply that demand for the right price. It has nothing to do with taking advantage of hopelessness. It’s all about supplying people with something they want, and are willing to pay for, in their life.
Once again, many sex workers, whether they work offline or online, help their buyers become more confident in their daily lives, which sometimes leads them to cultivating a relationship with someone special. Other individuals have zero desire to “settle down” with just one person, and/or they don’t care about dating or forming any sort of romantic relationship with someone else, but they do enjoy sex and/or the idea of sex. Sex workers provide these people with something that they want and are willing to pay for.
Solving the problem with people's loneliness isn't something that can just happen overnight. There are so many...so fucking many things that cause one to feel lonely. I often feel lonely even if I'm surrounded by people. Feelings of loneliness can be improved in a myriad of different ways depending on the person. We, as a society, should indeed help others not feel so lonely, but we don't. Sex workers very often do help lonely people.
Trying to make those two things sound similar is beneath you. You know that they are nothing alike.Also, this idea that "why shouldn't we support women exploiting their bodies to make money, since it happens anyway so this gives them a chance to do it in their own terms" sounds a lot like "why shouldn't we support arms dealers to make money selling weapons, because it happens anyway so better give them a chance to do it in their own terms". You're only looking at things transactionally, without considering the nature of the content itself and the effects of commercialising it.
As I said previously, everything in life is a transaction. Considering the effects of the sex industry, I do agree that there are issues in it. Nothing that you really mentioned, however, other than perhaps the loss of imagination but that has other factors besides the sex industry. I could make another lengthy post talking about my issues with the sex industry if you want though considering that this one is already long enough. I'm also a bit too tipsy, so please forgive this post if it's incoherent (it all makes sense to me right now, but who knows what it's like sober.)