Official F1 thread

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Re: Official F1 thread

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albon LUL
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Mr_Bramboy wrote:albon LUL
Making a fast car look very slow
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Snooze race as to be expected of Russia and its shit track, at least I didn't have to stay up till 1am for this one. Hamilton and being a sore loser, name a more iconic duo. Danny Ric again proving himself to probably be the 3rd best driver in the grid imo. Leclerc also drove well with the shitbox he has to drive. Most interesting thing from this is Hamilton only 2 demerit points away from getting a race ban. P.S Bollard idea at turn 2 was dogshit.
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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by Riotcoke »

wardyb1 wrote:Snooze race.
Effectively all of f1 now. Reason i watch more F3 now.
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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by wardyb1 »

Riotcoke wrote:
wardyb1 wrote:Snooze race.
Effectively all of f1 now. Reason i watch more F3 now.
Yeah F3 and F2 are great to watch. However it also proves that when they don't use carpark tracks then the races can be great. Problem is they keep coming to shit tracks like Sochi because of $$$$. Just going for short term $$ and not thinking of long term growth of the sport. Again though, car changes are desperately needed and pushing them back to 2022 is less than ideal.
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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by Riotcoke »

Well not having spending caps is just silly honestly, makes it basically pointless to watch at the moment.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Since I started semi-simracing I've also taken an interest in F1 content and I have to say guys, it feels more like car brand marketing than a legitimate sport. The "my car is better than yours" issue is completely game-breaking. Like, I guess Mercedes wins this season so can we now just put everyone in a Mercedes and have an actual driving competition, pretty please? What is even the point of having a drivers' championship when it's largely decided by some players starting with a handicap? The result is completely meaningless. We can only guess who the best driver is.

Is there any ongoing discussion at FIA to change this? Or is it completely hopeless with the very rich manufacturer lobby which has a commercial interest in keeping it this way?
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by Ashvin »

Goodspeed wrote:Since I started semi-simracing I've also taken an interest in F1 content and I have to say guys, it feels more like car brand marketing than a legitimate sport. The "my car is better than yours" issue is completely game-breaking. Like, I guess Mercedes wins this season so can we now just put everyone in a Mercedes and have an actual driving competition, pretty please? What is even the point of having a drivers' championship when it's largely decided by some players starting with a handicap? The result is completely meaningless. We can only guess who the best driver is.

Is there any ongoing discussion at FIA to change this? Or is it completely hopeless with the very rich manufacturer lobby which has a commercial interest in keeping it this way?
If it was all about drivers then we wouldn't have innovations in car engines. Tbh f1 is not a single-player game, its a team game, which includes not only drivers but also engineers behind the car and the pit crew.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Sure, which if you are into car manufacturing can be interesting, but much of the entertainment value of the racing part, which is by far the most interesting part to 99% of the audience, is lost due to this. And it's marketed as a driving competition. As such, it takes money and talent away from F2 which is the more entertaining sport if you're not a car mechanic. It's a shame for the drivers too, because instead of their talent being rewarded immediately they have to make sure they're driving a good car first.
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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by aligator92 »

Goodspeed wrote:Since I started semi-simracing I've also taken an interest in F1 content and I have to say guys, it feels more like car brand marketing than a legitimate sport. The "my car is better than yours" issue is completely game-breaking. Like, I guess Mercedes wins this season so can we now just put everyone in a Mercedes and have an actual driving competition, pretty please? What is even the point of having a drivers' championship when it's largely decided by some players starting with a handicap? The result is completely meaningless. We can only guess who the best driver is.

Is there any ongoing discussion at FIA to change this? Or is it completely hopeless with the very rich manufacturer lobby which has a commercial interest in keeping it this way?
Welll they do want to introduce spending caps and balancing attempts like the worst team gets more wind tunnel time for 2022 so there is a bit of hope for improvement. But yeah, after all this sport only exists because car companies use a ton of money to show that they can build the best racing car. If you make every team the same car, there is not much incentive to poor money into the sport. I am not defending it but I have come to accept it. As I said earlier, if you want to watch for on track action and a balanced field, watch F2.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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aligator92 wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Since I started semi-simracing I've also taken an interest in F1 content and I have to say guys, it feels more like car brand marketing than a legitimate sport. The "my car is better than yours" issue is completely game-breaking. Like, I guess Mercedes wins this season so can we now just put everyone in a Mercedes and have an actual driving competition, pretty please? What is even the point of having a drivers' championship when it's largely decided by some players starting with a handicap? The result is completely meaningless. We can only guess who the best driver is.

Is there any ongoing discussion at FIA to change this? Or is it completely hopeless with the very rich manufacturer lobby which has a commercial interest in keeping it this way?
Welll they do want to introduce spending caps and balancing attempts like the worst team gets more wind tunnel time for 2022 so there is a bit of hope for improvement. But yeah, after all this sport only exists because car companies use a ton of money to show that they can build the best racing car. If you make every team the same car, there is not much incentive to poor money into the sport. I am not defending it but I have come to accept it. As I said earlier, if you want to watch for on track action and a balanced field, watch F2.
I've found that out, yeah. It's too bad the best drivers are in F1, though.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Speaking of F2, today showed how brilliant these barriers work. To have 2 cars shunt into them at 300 kph and have both drivers jump out immediatly was fantastic to see
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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Goodspeed wrote:Since I started semi-simracing I've also taken an interest in F1 content and I have to say guys, it feels more like car brand marketing than a legitimate sport. The "my car is better than yours" issue is completely game-breaking. Like, I guess Mercedes wins this season so can we now just put everyone in a Mercedes and have an actual driving competition, pretty please? What is even the point of having a drivers' championship when it's largely decided by some players starting with a handicap? The result is completely meaningless. We can only guess who the best driver is.

Is there any ongoing discussion at FIA to change this? Or is it completely hopeless with the very rich manufacturer lobby which has a commercial interest in keeping it this way?
F1 isn't just a driver competition. The driver is only a small part of the puzzle. The development of the car itself is also a super important part of the sport. It might not be your cup of tea, but that is what F1 is.
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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by Ashvin »

Goodspeed wrote: which is by far the most interesting part to 99% of the audience
Where'd you get this number from? People are interested in car. The body and the engine are two of the very closely watched things in F1. In fact there are so many controversial stories made on the weird body designs by various teams.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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A large portion, is the point. Besides, the cars aren't variable. They're the same for the entire season so there's not much to talk about after a certain point. Like by now everyone knows Mercedes won, and we're just going through the motions. The coverage is focused almost entirely on the races, which are just underwhelming due in no small part to the differences in car performance.
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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Goodspeed wrote:They're the same for the entire season so there's not much to talk about after a certain point.
They're not. Teams can develop their car throughout the season. However, due to corona, certain parts of the car are currently locked until the new regulations are implemented in 2022. Ferrari and others had to close its factories earlier than other teams back in March, so it wasn't fair to let the remaining teams develop their car in the meantime.

You will like the new 2022 (previously 2021, again corona) regulations. These regulations will attempt to level the playing field. You should read up on them if you're interested.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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I might follow F2 if anything; The car stuff isn't interesting to me
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Goodspeed wrote:I might follow F2 if anything; The car stuff isn't interesting to me
F2 and F3 are both pretty interesting, if you want just driving skill it's probably rally.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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MotoGP is also nice to watch.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Riotcoke wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:I might follow F2 if anything; The car stuff isn't interesting to me
F2 and F3 are both pretty interesting, if you want just driving skill it's probably rally.
I always loved rally games but I don't find it as interesting to watch than circuit racing cause there's no interaction. I recently learned how complicated it can be it to cleanly overtake someone or to defend it. That's why I went to watch F1, since it's supposed to be the pinnacle of circuit racing. Alas..

Luckily there's lots of good sim racing content as well, where players start on equal footing.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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my friends and I played a lot of this ps2 nascar game which is impressive because the only thing we did when we played it was drive the wrong way around the track and try to make the biggest crashes possible.

for some reason the very concept of playing that game any other way was revolting.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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Goodspeed wrote:Since I started semi-simracing I've also taken an interest in F1 content and I have to say guys, it feels more like car brand marketing than a legitimate sport. The "my car is better than yours" issue is completely game-breaking. Like, I guess Mercedes wins this season so can we now just put everyone in a Mercedes and have an actual driving competition, pretty please? What is even the point of having a drivers' championship when it's largely decided by some players starting with a handicap? The result is completely meaningless. We can only guess who the best driver is.

Is there any ongoing discussion at FIA to change this? Or is it completely hopeless with the very rich manufacturer lobby which has a commercial interest in keeping it this way?
You've got to look at it a bit differently imo. Think of the Premier League in football. No one expects the small teams to win the thing, but that doesn't mean the league is pointless to watch. You get to see them challenge the big teams, you get to see them try and fight of relegation, the big teams battle it out for the top prize, and when teams like Leicester pull off 1 in a million odds and win the thing it becomes one of the best moments in the history of sport. It is similar to F1.

Normally you get to see the big teams fight out for the top places, and see the little guys do everything they can to upset that. The big issue at the moment is that Mercedes is just so far ahead and that compounds with Bottas just being absolutely no where near Hamilton in terms of skill. So it becomes a one horse race. Ferrari had their engine gutted, Red Bull and Verstappen can be close at some tracks but Albon does nothing to help and the mid-field teams just can't close the gap. The only time anyone was so dominant was probably Williams back in the early 90's I think but that only lasted a couple of years.

The FIA has probably been guilty of not doing enough/quick enough to curb Mercedes dominance, compared to how quickly they have acted in the past. But that is also slightly a result of no one really knowing why they are just so good. From the outside it doesn't look like they are doing anything differently, yet when their car goes around the course, it looks like it is on railroad tracks. No other cars look remotely close to it in terms of handling. The FIA just doesn't know what to ban that wouldn't affect the other teams just as much. Hence the move to ground effect cars in 2022.

Anyway that is all to say that big changes are coming in 2022, with completely changed cars, mixed with spending caps, hopefully all resulting in a much more competitive competition across the board.
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Re: Official F1 thread

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wardyb1 wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Since I started semi-simracing I've also taken an interest in F1 content and I have to say guys, it feels more like car brand marketing than a legitimate sport. The "my car is better than yours" issue is completely game-breaking. Like, I guess Mercedes wins this season so can we now just put everyone in a Mercedes and have an actual driving competition, pretty please? What is even the point of having a drivers' championship when it's largely decided by some players starting with a handicap? The result is completely meaningless. We can only guess who the best driver is.

Is there any ongoing discussion at FIA to change this? Or is it completely hopeless with the very rich manufacturer lobby which has a commercial interest in keeping it this way?
You've got to look at it a bit differently imo. Think of the Premier League in football. No one expects the small teams to win the thing, but that doesn't mean the league is pointless to watch. You get to see them challenge the big teams, you get to see them try and fight of relegation, the big teams battle it out for the top prize, and when teams like Leicester pull off 1 in a million odds and win the thing it becomes one of the best moments in the history of sport. It is similar to F1.
That analogy only works to an extent. In football the big teams win because they have the best players, not because they have shoes that make them faster. Matches start on equal footing. In F1, drivers necessarily don't start on equal footing. It's a pretty fundamental difference. Football and other sports also have lots of staff supporting the teams and the players, but they rarely directly affect the starting conditions of a single game in a season like they do in F1. At most they help the players practice or help the team work together better. In fact I can't think of a single game that takes itself seriously, sport or otherwise, where players don't start individual matches on equal footing.

But yes, I get that manufacturing is part of the game. My issue is also that it's marketed as a driving competition. We have a meaningless drivers' championship, and we actually call the winner the "world champion", as if they in any way proved that they are the best driver. At least own that this is a team sport and have team rankings only. It would be like in football, where no one can definitively say who the best player is because the players aren't competing individually. Same in F1, except there we pretend that they are. Why? Because like I said earlier, most of the audience wants it to be a drivers' competition. So we pretend that it is.
The FIA has probably been guilty of not doing enough/quick enough to curb Mercedes dominance, compared to how quickly they have acted in the past. But that is also slightly a result of no one really knowing why they are just so good. From the outside it doesn't look like they are doing anything differently, yet when their car goes around the course, it looks like it is on railroad tracks. No other cars look remotely close to it in terms of handling. The FIA just doesn't know what to ban that wouldn't affect the other teams just as much. Hence the move to ground effect cars in 2022.

Anyway that is all to say that big changes are coming in 2022, with completely changed cars, mixed with spending caps, hopefully all resulting in a much more competitive competition across the board.
That's a long way off, but yeah let's hope.
Maybe one day they will make it completely equal. Switch F1 and F2, so we can have the best drivers competing in a driving competition and the best manufacturers competing in a manufacturing competition.
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Re: Official F1 thread

Post by wardyb1 »

Goodspeed wrote:
wardyb1 wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Since I started semi-simracing I've also taken an interest in F1 content and I have to say guys, it feels more like car brand marketing than a legitimate sport. The "my car is better than yours" issue is completely game-breaking. Like, I guess Mercedes wins this season so can we now just put everyone in a Mercedes and have an actual driving competition, pretty please? What is even the point of having a drivers' championship when it's largely decided by some players starting with a handicap? The result is completely meaningless. We can only guess who the best driver is.

Is there any ongoing discussion at FIA to change this? Or is it completely hopeless with the very rich manufacturer lobby which has a commercial interest in keeping it this way?
You've got to look at it a bit differently imo. Think of the Premier League in football. No one expects the small teams to win the thing, but that doesn't mean the league is pointless to watch. You get to see them challenge the big teams, you get to see them try and fight of relegation, the big teams battle it out for the top prize, and when teams like Leicester pull off 1 in a million odds and win the thing it becomes one of the best moments in the history of sport. It is similar to F1.
That analogy only works to an extent. In football the big teams win because they have the best players, not because they have shoes that make them faster. Matches start on equal footing. In F1, drivers necessarily don't start on equal footing. It's a pretty fundamental difference. Football and other sports also have lots of staff supporting the teams and the players, but they rarely directly affect the starting conditions of a single game in a season like they do in F1. At most they help the players practice or help the team work together better. In fact I can't think of a single game that takes itself seriously, sport or otherwise, where players don't start individual matches on equal footing.

But yes, I get that manufacturing is part of the game. My issue is also that it's marketed as a drivers' competition. We have a meaningless drivers' championship, and we actually call the winner the "world champion", as if they in any way proved that they are the best driver. At least own that this is a team sport and have team rankings only. It would be like in football, where no one can definitively say who the best player is because the players aren't competing individually. Same in F1, except there we pretend that they are. Why? Because like I said earlier, most of the audience wants it to be a drivers' competition. So we pretend that it is.
In football the big teams have the best players because they spend the most money. Does having the best players mean the game doesn't start on an equal playing field? No. The game is on a level playing field because it starts at 0-0 with the ball in the centre. This is mostly the same as F1. Everyone starts in very similar spots only determined by a fair qualifying system. The shoe analogy doesn't work. The shoe analogy would be more akin to giving the top team quicker tyres because they are the top teams. But that doesn't happen.

As to it being marketed as a driver's competition, well yes it is because it is. It is who can get their individual car around the track the quickest. But is also a semi-team sport. Hence the Constructors Championship. But to act like it is a complete team sport is pretty misguided anyway. Look at Red Bull with Vettel, Webber, Verstappen and Ricciardo. Both situations were was most definitely not a team sport. No one was helping each other, instead they were actively hurting each other's race. Again it might seem like a team sport more so at the moment because everyone is doing whatever they can to just beat Mercedes. Hence the reason Mercedes like Bottas so much, because when push comes to shove, he both isn't willing to override teams orders and do what it takes to beat Hamilton, and isn't good enough either.
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