European politics

[lejend]

So it's all debatable and there are many trade-offs.

I don't disagree. There's a difference between "America is a better place to live than Europe", which is subjective and something I never claimed, and "Americans have more stuff and live in bigger homes than Europeans", which is something that's objectively demonstrable. I'm not here to argue the former. Obviously each person has their own hierarchy of what they want in life. Maybe the average European is perfectly satisfied living in a small home and having no air conditioning as long as their country is culturally homogeneous and has cheap college. That's a perfectly valid preference, but it doesn't really change any of the facts at hand, it just confirms my point that Europeans tend to deprioritize economic prosperity in favor of other goals like security and equality. I'm not sure that's even something you'd disagree with. If you guys are upset because you think I was somehow making fun of Europeans for being poor, well I wasn't.

[harcha]

That is probably a good way of putting it but I still don't get the obsession with A/C. Portable units are pretty accessible, I think most of European middle class can afford it.

[RefluxSemantic]

I dont think the lack of a/c is an economical thing. I could easily afford it and im below middle class atm.

Its just that there are not enough hot days to justify it. I think this summer has been quite hot and I can only recall 5 days where I might have wanted it. Next summer Im def gonna get a portable airco unit, that does seem worth the money to me.

[iNcog]

So Americans pay upwards of 200.000 dollars for this:

Spoiler

God we're looking to buy a house in the next few years and I wish that the depicted home were $200k. Shitholes like Florida or Texas might have housing at that price but areas like Denver/California aren't that cheap.

American cities are incredibly unfriendly to people. Cars? Sure. Walking in an American city is a deathtrap. I've nearly run over people at crosswalks in the middle of the night because there is NO visibility AT ALL at night and they jaywalk. American cities aren't good for children, they aren't good for pedestrians, they're just miles upon miles of gross asphalt so Jimmy can take his 2022 Silverado that he can't afford to pick up his Chipotle. American urbanism is a joke. Americans are more well than Europeans in probably.... no areas whatsoever.

[Dolan]

@lejend AC is not that big a deal. I had AC since 15 years ago and that's in Romania, not exactly a rich country.
I think many Euros didn't own a unit until recently because the weather was mostly temperate until like 10-15 years ago, when summers started getting hotter and hotter. They were just not necessary.
But more recently people have started buying AC units here too.
Personally I don't like living in artificially cooled AC climate as once you get out of the house you have to face the real weather anyway, so might as well adapt and use fans, which is a more natural way.
But yeah, occasionally they are useful at least to dehumidify your place.

[Goodspeed]

There was only 1 day this summer where the temp in our house went above 28 C, which to me is when it gets uncomfortable. Then only a few more where it was between 26-28. It depends on the house, but for us it's completely unnecessary even now. Would much rather spend money on making the place more energy efficient in winter.

Different priorities.

[harcha]

I only have A/C in my apartment because it is a very hot apartment. I have like 2-3 weeks each summer where the apartment is consistently 30+ C during the second half of day. If I lived at my parents place, then there would be no need for A/C, because it would be the same as it is for gs.

[duckzilla]

The recent weeks were quite hot in the Ruhr Area and my home office room gets a lot of light/heat from 1pm on. It was 30-35°C for weeks in the room. Still, I don't think about buying an AC. I have a fan directed at me and drink iced coffee.

Maybe it's also a question of habits. If you have an AC at home, a closed garage, AC in your car, AC at your workplace, and AC at the mall, I image that you basically live your life in an AC environment and your body gets used to little variation in temperatures. In such a world, if you don't have an AC at home, rising temperatures in summer make a much bigger impression on you. Not (necessarily) because of unbearable heat, but partially because your body doesn't acclimatize to seasons/heat waves/etc. anymore.

Apart from that, I guess there are substantial climatological differences between a majority of the US and Central/Western Europe. E.g., vast areas of the Midwest have continental climate (?) with extreme lows in winter/extreme highs in summer, potentially fuelling the need for both proper heating and AC. That's not the case in my area. Last year it didn't snow at all and summers were usually a mix of rain and sunshine, seldomly with temperatures significantly above 32°C. Although it can happen, every five years or so, that you have a two-week cold wave of -10°C in winter or a heat wave of 35°C in summer. Obviously these things are changing slowly, given that every summer since 2018 has been a record high average temperature... This year, summer in the Ruhr Area was similar to what I expect for Northern Italy (average daytime temperature Ruhr Area in July: 25.1°C, Tuscany: 27°C ).

[harcha]

Are you actually doing work at that temperature? I found that my concentration drops when it's anything above 28 C, and I really don't want to move and do chores when it's above 30 C. Also how is the humidity there? Over here it is probably a bit on the higher side, which makes hot weather more unbearable.

[edeholland]

My house has hardly any isolation (we have single pane windows on one side of the house) so buying an AC would be an even bigger waste of electricity than normal. It did get to 35°C at one point but putting my feet in a bucket of cold water was all I needed really. The humidity is also at peak levels at those days so just sweating is very uneffective.

[duckzilla]

Are you actually doing work at that temperature? I found that my concentration drops when it's anything above 28 C, and I really don't want to move and do chores when it's above 30 C. Also how is the humidity there? Over here it is probably a bit on the higher side, which makes hot weather more unbearable.

Humidity is around 65-70%. Regarding work, I didn't perceive a significant drop.

[spanky4ever]

ppl are drowning in Pakistan atm, cos of climate change. This could also happen in Europa. Drought, ward weather, or floods. AC will not

[harcha]

ppl are drowning in Pakistan atm, cos of climate change. This could also happen in Europa. Drought, ward weather, or floods. AC will not

change that. FTFY

[spanky4ever]

@harcha its not FTFY, as you call it, or sarcasm, it is real, You felt it, and you know it.

[spanky4ever]

does not matte if you have AC, or whatever

[lejend]

You might not need A/C if you're young and invincible but most heat-related deaths obviously occur among the elderly and people with serious health issues.

[Goodspeed]

You might not need A/C if you're young and invincible but most heat-related deaths obviously occur among the elderly and people with serious health issues.

Where do you live?

[duckzilla]

You might not need A/C if you're young and invincible but most heat-related deaths obviously occur among the elderly and people with serious health issues.

That could be a somewhat convincing argument if the average lifespan in the US wouldn't be significantly lower than even across the entire EU.

[harcha]

EU has the most old people deaths!? Shocking!!!
Turns out EU just has the most old people. Who woulda thunk

[iNcog]

You might not need A/C if you're young and invincible but most heat-related deaths obviously occur among the elderly and people with serious health issues.

Where do you live?

Solid try, I'm rating this attempt a 7/10

[Goodspeed]

It was a shit attempt but what's the point in really trying at this point

[Cometk]

is my reading comprehension off or somethin? not y'all clowning lejend when he makes the only good point he's made in his life?

[Dolan]

is my reading comprehension off or somethin? not y'all clowning lejend when he makes the only good point he's made in his life?

That happens in the USA too:

Association of Extreme Heat With All-Cause Mortality in the Contiguous US, 2008-2017:

In our analysis, which included all counties in the contiguous US, we found that extreme heat days were associated with a mean of 1373 to 1992 additional deaths per year, depending on the definition of extreme heat used.

Association of Extreme Heat and Cardiovascular Mortality in the United States:

Across 3108 counties, from 2008 to 2017 [...] [e]xtreme heat was associated with an estimated 5958 additional deaths resulting from cardiovascular disease over the study period.

So ig even in the US, where there's a culture of living in AC, dying from extreme heat happens just like in France.

Could be due to many factors not mentioned either by the media or these studies: those who fell victim to heat lived in rural areas, were too poor to have a functional AC unit, or just ignored recommendations and braved the heat outside, despite being old and ill. Some old people get to the point at which they don't care much if they live or die, but they would stubbornly go outside to do some specific thing even if the weather is scorching outside.
In a country that large, there's bound to be lots of these either poor or stubborn, or both.

[fightinfrenchman]

Could be due to many factors not mentioned either by the media or these studies: those who fell victim to heat lived in rural areas, were too poor to have a functional AC unit, or just ignored recommendations and braved the heat outside, despite being old and ill. Some old people get to the point at which they don't care much if they live or die, but they would stubbornly go outside to do some specific thing even if the weather is scorching outside.
In a country that large, there's bound to be lots of these either poor or stubborn, or both.

Why do you think the media doesn't talk about those things. It's fine if you don't like them but it's not like they don't ever cover real issues lol

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/04/perspect ... index.html

[Dolan]

I meant the media Cometk quoted.
One way to solve this could be fans. Fans can basically create an artificial wind inside a room and they use a lot less electricity than AC units. Even a 10W fan can be quite powerful at full speed.
AC units also need maintenance, you need to fill them up with gas and change the filters every few years. It's not something that low-income people could manage even if they got the AC for free. They should give them a bunch of fans, much cheaper, lower power usage and can manage the heat, if it's not too high.