European politics

[iNcog]

I mean the resurgence of far right parties is found everywhere really, I guess it wouldn't be a surprise to see this happen in Romania as well. Look at Italy for instance.

[Dolan]

@Dolan Wtf is going on over there

A lot.
The PM resigned and called his social-democrat party to withdraw from power, after the presidential candidate they supported together with the other mainstream party (national liberals) failed to even make it to the 2nd round.
He's trying to limit the damage to his party by going back to opposition before the party becomes too unpopular.

There's also a potential threat from this Simion guy winning the 2nd round, becoming the president and using a constitutional trick to force the dissolution of the parliament and new elections: appointing 2 PM candidates in a row that would be so extreme, the parliament wouldn't vote them. Then he'd be entitled to dissolve the assembly and call new elections. He did say he wants his own PM.

Why would he do that? Because he's riding a wave of popularity, he's on a roll, scored 40% of votes in the first round and the second challenger has half his numbers. And his gamble with forced early elections could pay off: his AUR party could gain extra votes and become the party with most seats in parliament, to the detriment of the current largest party (social democrats).

Though that might be unlikely, because Romanians don't couple party voting with presidential voting so well. And even less local/municipality elections with national elections. And currently Simion's party AUR has only 8.8% of the seats (4th party), while social-democrats (PSD) have 33.82%, followed by liberals (PNL) with 27.20% and the progressive-centrist party USR (16.17%).

But if he wins the presidency and can't trigger new elections and get his own majority, he'll be dealing with a hostile one and won't be able to implement much of his own agenda. He would have significant clout in foreign policy, defence, judiciary appointments, but he'd be at the government's mercy when it comes to funding anything.

[Dolan]

I mean the resurgence of far right parties is found everywhere really, I guess it wouldn't be a surprise to see this happen in Romania as well. Look at Italy for instance.

Idk if Simion's AUR party can be called far right. They did kick out the Georgescu guy who won the first round in the elections that were cancelled due to Russian interference.
Even Georgescu was too extreme for them, given his past support for a 1930s fascist group (Iron Guard) and other kooky ideas on where Romania should be headed.
Simion is more of an opportunist looking to navigate between extremes, much like Meloni.

[Dolan]

how Fico flew to Moscow

[harcha]

a bit of an exaggeration, supposedly the detour was through azerbaijan. i don't understand why belarus is a no-go tho
e: ah, poland was closed too

[Dolan]

belarus airspace is under sanctions

[Dolan]

Much to my surprise, the sovereignist anti-EU pro-Trump candidate for presidency George Simion lost the elections. Big score too: 46% to 54%. Urban vote carried the pro-EU/pro-Ukraine candidate.
So the chud revolution is postponed for now. Really proud of our secret services winning these elections for NATO, EU, Soros, etc. They proved to be actually capable, unlike the CIA.

[iNcog]

Did NATO, EU, Soros win thanks to your secret services or did they prevent Simons from stealing the election due to Russian interference? Those are two different takes.

[Goodspeed]

What does Soros have to do with anything? I see that guy mentioned a lot but isn't he just some rando billionaire?

[Dolan]

Did NATO, EU, Soros win thanks to your secret services or did they prevent Simons from stealing the election due to Russian interference? Those are two different takes.

If a lot of Simion voters believe foreign occult entities have been plotting to keep them poor and kill them with vaccines, that's "their truth". In their minds it was real and you can't convince them it wasn't.

What does Soros have to do with anything? I see that guy mentioned a lot but isn't he just some rando billionaire?

According to internet luminaries, Soros controls everything together with the CIA, EU, NATO, WEF, the World Bank, Blackrock, Israel, the Illuminati, Mossad and Pfizer.

[Goodspeed]

It's because he's a jew isn't it

[Dolan]

That's one theory about it

[harcha]

that's the punchline

[iNcog]

It's funny because Thiel is everything that Soros is accused of being.

[Dolan]

The rightwing universe now is a mirror image of the leftwing one.
X is the rightwing Reddit
Thiel is the evil grey eminence of the right wing, much like Soros was projected for the left
Country music is the right's hiphop
Fox is the right's CNN
ETc

[iNcog]

I think putting them on similar footing is a bit of a false equivalence that is favorable to the right. I don't think the liberals are discussing taking away due process, impeding freedom of speech or supporting mass surveillance. I'm not sure what the left even stands for anymore, maybe some social justice stuff, but I don't see them being in supportive of anything as remotely dangerous/alarming at what the MAGA side of the spectrum is showing. I have many conservative values but the right isn't reflecting any of them these days. At least not where I am, I think in Europe the spectrum might be a little more relatable / ground in reality. I wouldn't know, I'm not there right now and don't have the means to sink time into following those politics more closely.

Definitely I don't think Soros has done anything remotely comparable to what Thiel has done. Feel free to correct that assessment with sources of your own.

[Dolan]

I didn't talk about anything verifiably real, only perceptions. Because for most people involved with political subjects, remote perceptions are their reality.
And perceptions are produced and synthesised through media, influencers, podcasters, the whole opinion-building industry.
For people to break free of this political hypnosis they'd have to do a stint in government and see for themselves how things are managed, whether Soros is making any phonecalls to steer things or not.
Until then, politics will continue to look like Kafka's castle, a big ominous, mysterious building in which lots of shady things must be happening, because if you don't see what's in there, you can confabulate a lot.

[Dolan]

I think putting them on similar footing is a bit of a false equivalence that is favorable to the right. I don't think the liberals are discussing taking away due process, impeding freedom of speech or supporting mass surveillance.

From their point of view, the whole system is contaminated and change is not possible without breaking the system. For example, they think lots of judges are blocking the implementation of legitimate right-wing policies which people have voted for. If judges carry more weight than 50.2% of voters, then why do people even elect leaders? To carry out what? Might as well leave policy-making to judges, if they have so much power they can block things the people have voted for. Who defines what the rule of law should be? A select class of law graduates? Political will expressed through popular/elector vote? The congress voted directly by people in each state? It's a triangle of forces between which this is decided, with each acting as a filter. And I think there's a lot of frustration that what voters want to see changed eventually gets so watered down that they end up seeing the system acting as if it has its own interests that are disconnected from the people's.

If voters support taking away due process/curtailing speech/mass surveillance, then they're gonna reap what they sow.

[iNcog]

I didn't talk about anything verifiably real, only perceptions. Because for most people involved with political subjects, remote perceptions are their reality.
And perceptions are produced and synthesised through media, influencers, podcasters, the whole opinion-building industry.

word though at this point we're discussing the merits of the system itself, which I fully agree in inadequate for the 21st century. our technology is insane but our institutions are probably centuries behind across the board.

[princeofcarthage]

It's because he's a jew isn't it

There is verifiable proof about him being involved in multiple stock market manipulations, meddling in foreign elections and fundings to destabilize government of leaders he doesn't like.

[princeofcarthage]

What does Soros have to do with anything? I see that guy mentioned a lot but isn't he just some rando billionaire?

no billionaire is rando lol. there re only 3000 billionaire in 8 billion pop

[princeofcarthage]

I think putting them on similar footing is a bit of a false equivalence that is favorable to the right. I don't think the liberals are discussing taking away due process, impeding freedom of speech or supporting mass surveillance.

From their point of view, the whole system is contaminated and change is not possible without breaking the system. For example, they think lots of judges are blocking the implementation of legitimate right-wing policies which people have voted for. If judges carry more weight than 50.2% of voters, then why do people even elect leaders? To carry out what? Might as well leave policy-making to judges, if they have so much power they can block things the people have voted for. Who defines what the rule of law should be? A select class of law graduates? Political will expressed through popular/elector vote? The congress voted directly by people in each state? It's a triangle of forces between which this is decided, with each acting as a filter. And I think there's a lot of frustration that what voters want to see changed eventually gets so watered down that they end up seeing the system acting as if it has its own interests that are disconnected from the people's.

If voters support taking away due process/curtailing speech/mass surveillance, then they're gonna reap what they sow.

The judges can only block policies made directly by president/prime minister in any democratic country because it is the job of the judge to figure out if they fall in line with constitution or not. However any judge cannot block or overturn any legislation passed by congress. Congress basicslly can nullify or supersede any court decision at any point and thats where representative majority lies, not with president

[Dolan]

The constitution is often like those kids some people bring to a protest, placing them in front, as meatshield, just in case police forces want to push back.
If one policeman dares raise the baton in their direction, they start screaming: they are hitting the kids, look, they are hitting the kids.
That's how the constitution is often used these days.

[iNcog]

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-re ... edings-_en

Ursula von der Leyen is a bitch screw her

[Dolan]

>to protect you from those who do terrors we need to know everything your'e doing