European politics

[Dolan]

I'm no expert in the auto industry either, but I know some general characteristics of the main economic sectors.

For the car industry, there are a few core ones:
- very high barriers to entry for newcomers - as Elon Musk found out, after years of operating at a loss, despite being subsidised by the US state
- highly dependent on supply chains that operate just-in-time - you really need that flux of components to come according to schedule, otherwise you risk delays, ie losing money
- highly capital-intensive - one of the highest costs per produced unit of all products made for general consumers (so, not warships or fighter jets)
- hard to sell - buying decisions are big commitments that require working with financing schemes, managing these risks, etc (unlike selling gadgets)
- narrow profit margins per produced unit, compared to the level of investment necessary to produce it

Let's just say it's kinda tough to be in this business, you need to have very solid plans to stay afloat.

[Jam]

[princeofcarthage]

Europe is practically heading towards war tbh

[Dolan]

Europe is practically heading towards war tbh

Which Europe

[spanky4ever]

Europe is practically heading towards war tbh

Is that one of your prophet sayings? !again!

[Dsy]

There is a war already in Ukraine actually.

[princeofcarthage]

Europe is practically heading towards war tbh

Which Europe

!!! Well look at all the current events and history tends to repeat itself. If you convert historical actions into modern ones then current situation is reminiscence of situations which precludes to war. EU basically is taking hardened stance against RoE at the moment. I presume (with almost certainty) that aim is to assert dominance and show that being in EU is much better than being outside. $278B trade deal with Switzerland is over and will put significant barriers on swiss products into EU. A deal with Norway is failing too. Now I for one is in favour of EU becoming more integrated and more countries joining it. After all it's a step closer to Earth Council. But these are half assed measures and will do nothing but put Europe in midst of war. Rather simply say militarily capturing Switzerland or Norway and UK is a better option.

[princeofcarthage]

Europe is practically heading towards war tbh

Is that one of your prophet sayings? !again!

Almost all of which have been true sweetheart.

[Dolan]

Europe is practically heading towards war tbh

Which Europe

!!! Well look at all the current events and history tends to repeat itself. If you convert historical actions into modern ones then current situation is reminiscence of situations which precludes to war. EU basically is taking hardened stance against RoE at the moment. I presume (with almost certainty) that aim is to assert dominance and show that being in EU is much better than being outside. $278B trade deal with Switzerland is over and will put significant barriers on swiss products into EU. A deal with Norway is failing too. Now I for one is in favour of EU becoming more integrated and more countries joining it. After all it's a step closer to Earth Council. But these are half assed measures and will do nothing but put Europe in midst of war. Rather simply say militarily capturing Switzerland or Norway and UK is a better option.

What.
I don't follow one single proposition from that paragraph.
What is RoE.

[princeofcarthage]

Show hidden quotes

Europe is practically heading towards war tbh

Which Europe

!!! Well look at all the current events and history tends to repeat itself. If you convert historical actions into modern ones then current situation is reminiscence of situations which precludes to war. EU basically is taking hardened stance against RoE at the moment. I presume (with almost certainty) that aim is to assert dominance and show that being in EU is much better than being outside. $278B trade deal with Switzerland is over and will put significant barriers on swiss products into EU. A deal with Norway is failing too. Now I for one is in favour of EU becoming more integrated and more countries joining it. After all it's a step closer to Earth Council. But these are half assed measures and will do nothing but put Europe in midst of war. Rather simply say militarily capturing Switzerland or Norway and UK is a better option.

What.
I don't follow one single proposition from that paragraph.
What is RoE.

Rest of Europe.

[Dolan]

It's just part of how foreign policy and diplomacy work. Every country or big alliance feels obligated to react to events taking place in its proximity or far away.
And usually political elites are stacked with moralistic boomers, who still hold this view that you need to project this global image of defender of other people's rights.
Even though it's completely unfeasible and it often limits your policy choices.

After all, if Russia, or Belarus or China don't care about their own people, why should you act like you're the global human rights nanny that watches over the interests of people from other countries, if they don't care about overthrowing their abusive governments?
If they don't care to oppose them, then maybe they don't really share your concerns that much. Or maybe the West is just hypocritically using the theme of human rights to simply slap sanctions that are motivated by other underlying strategic reasons. And moralistic justifications are just used to maintain that higher moral ground, which allows you to have public opinion and the media on your side.

[princeofcarthage]

Yeah this has nothing to do with what I said.
Edit 1 I double checked
Edit 2 I triple checked

[Dolan]

It does, I'm explaining to you the decisional mechanics behind this policy choice of sanctioning other countries for alleged abuses or whatever.
You said Europe is taking a hard stance against the RoE.

You want me to just say "oh yeah dude, totally, Europe should just partner up with Russia and China and launch a nuclear attack on the USA, just to humour you".

[princeofcarthage]

Yeah I am pretty sure. You completely misunderstood what I said.

[Dolan]

This is what you wrote

EU basically is taking hardened stance against RoE at the moment. I presume (with almost certainty) that aim is to assert dominance and show that being in EU is much better than being outside.

And I explained to you the EU doesn't do this to "assert dominance and show that being in the EU is much better than being outside". Why they're doing this has no relation to what you're implying.
They're doing it out of inertia, people in positions of power all share a common mentality that this kind of moralistic posturing is useful in every way, diplomatically and strategically.
And you're implying this will lead to war, just based on some kind of absolute and fixed historical patterns, but you don't substantiate this claim in any way.

[princeofcarthage]

This is what you wrote

EU basically is taking hardened stance against RoE at the moment. I presume (with almost certainty) that aim is to assert dominance and show that being in EU is much better than being outside.

And I explained to you the EU doesn't do this to "assert dominance and show that being in the EU is much better than being outside". Why they're doing this has no relation with what you're implying.
They're doing it out of inertia, people in positions of power all share a common mentality that this kind of moralistic posturing is useful in every way, diplomatically and strategically.
And you're implying this will lead to war, just based on some kind of absolute and fixed historical patterns, but you don't substantiate this claim in any way.

Yeah you are talking about sanctions and US and China kind off thing which is no way close to what I was implying. "Moralistic posturing" has nothing to do with what I am speaking about. Only if you were up to date on latest news you would have known...

They're doing it out of inertia, people in positions of power all share a common mentality

Aren't you implying this based on absolute and fixed historical pattern itself?

[Dolan]

Then why don't you explain clearly what you were saying. Instead of saying things in vague terms then claiming nobody understood your point.
Obscurity on purpose is not depth. You're just being evasive when you see your points don't really stand up to scrutiny.

[Dolan]

They're doing it out of inertia, people in positions of power all share a common mentality

Aren't you implying this based on absolute and fixed historical pattern itself?

The level of abstraction at which you generalise is important. You're making generalisations about how a union of countries relates to other poles of power in the world and claiming this reflects some historical patterns that lead to war. It's possible you're right (or not), but it's up to you to make this argument.

On the other hand, the level at which I made that generalisation about people in power tending to share a common mentality is much less abstract, it's closer to concrete human behaviour that you can observe and which was documented throughout history. It's a common pattern of human behaviour to see a certain generation of politicians share a common mentality, which sometimes is behind the times or slow to react and adapt to a changing paradigm, or just changing world order.

[duckzilla]

Rather simply say militarily capturing Switzerland or Norway and UK is a better option.

This is a ridiculous assumption on many levels. The most important founding principle of the European Union is the avoidance of war in Europe after the experiences of the Second World War. Given this background, a EU military expedition is neither a simple undertaking nor can it be a better option to pretty much anything else, since it undermines the foundation of the union itself.

[occamslightsaber]

Have fun capturing nuclear-armed Britain!

[scarm]

@princeofcarthage you realize reality aint HOI4 right?

[harcha]

Cold War pt. II: Heating It Up

[scarm]

Honestly though the EU needs to act, otherwise we are making a joke out of ourselves, letting a foreign power intercept an airplane full of EU citizens in our territory.

[princeofcarthage]

Rather simply say militarily capturing Switzerland or Norway and UK is a better option.

This is a ridiculous assumption on many levels. The most important founding principle of the European Union is the avoidance of war in Europe after the experiences of the Second World War. Given this background, a EU military expedition is neither a simple undertaking nor can it be a better option to pretty much anything else, since it undermines the foundation of the union itself.

Ridiculous assumption is that concepts or things do not change over time. Why EU was founded 70 years ago is irrelevant today. What's more important is what it needs to be.

[princeofcarthage]

They're doing it out of inertia, people in positions of power all share a common mentality

Aren't you implying this based on absolute and fixed historical pattern itself?

The level of abstraction at which you generalise is important. You're making generalisations about how a union of countries relates to other poles of power in the world and claiming this reflects some historical patterns that lead to war. It's possible you're right (or not), but it's up to you to make this argument.

On the other hand, the level at which I made that generalisation about people in power tending to share a common mentality is much less abstract, it's closer to concrete human behaviour that you can observe and which was documented throughout history. It's a common pattern of human behaviour to see a certain generation of politicians share a common mentality, which sometimes is behind the times or slow to react and adapt to a changing paradigm, or just changing world order.

Union of countries have existed throughout civilized mankind. EU isn't an exception. This is also based on observed behaviours of dominant countries throughout history.