Pornhub Backlash and Content Purge

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Pakistan comradecommissar
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by comradecommissar »

Dolan wrote:
comradecommissar wrote:
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For example, Pakistan is the world's biggest consumer of porn but sex workers are probably the most degraded and abused section of society.
And that reflects your culture's mindset about that occupation. Just as in the USA, calling it "sex work" reflects their own mindset about it. There's no universal way of thinking about this subject.
Really poor of a "social scientist" to boil everything down to culture.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

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Post by deleted_user »

Dolan wrote:
deleted_user wrote:What are the implications for removing the noun "work" from "sex work?"
No actual implications, it's just the fact that that label was created with the specific purpose of dignifying this occupation, that previously was considered demeaning.
It was just part of the Western progressive agenda to validate certain kinds of people or occupation by making them all sound respectable if they're called "work".
It sounds like the implication is to return sex work to its demeaning position.

I think a lot of work is demeaning. There are a myriad of menial jobs that I'd imagine are less stimulating and more replaceable than sex work. I've seen you on these forums routinely invoke a type of job as a personal insult. I think the way to make work less demeaning is by empowering the worker, especially in an industry as historically exploitative as sex. Such a process is dignifying.

For being the lack of work, a lot of bad stuff tends to happen during this lack of doing. Harm reduction is good.

If the adjective of the job has no bearing on the quality of the person, I guess I wouldn't buy it from you from my observations above. But if it is as you say it is, and because there must be an implication for removing the concept of work, and it cannot fall on the person, do you let it fall on the profession? Your response seems to say "yes." And if so, what is the point? When I call work demeaning, the point is to point out the oppressive structures and the lack of democracy. What is the point of relegating sex back into a demeaning position on the basis of being sex?
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

comradecommissar wrote:
Dolan wrote:
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That's just how you project what I'm saying. You can criticise something about someone without hating them.
Some of the music I like is made by transsexuals. That doesn't mean that I can't criticise some parts of the culture which enabled them or that if I criticise it, this is a sign of hate. You're thinking very simplistically about this, in terms of either accept/glorify or reject/vilify.
This is the same as "I have black friends so I can't be racist."
Not really because the person who uses this "token friendship" to prove he's not "racist" does not openly stand for his beliefs, if he does that.
Whereas I don't hide my opinions, I can openly criticise some parts of the culture that created this trans identity, while also appreciating some of their creations. Maybe I genuinely believe that the scientific evidence behind such an identity is not very solid, that it's just a psychological identification, similar to fetishes. There's even a theory made by a Canadian psychiatrist which says that transsexuals are of two types: either autogynephilic (ie, straight men who have a fetish for crossdressing and build an identity around it) or extremely feminine gay men who have a hard time finding partners in a community that often rejects feminine types.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

comradecommissar wrote:Really poor of a "social scientist" to boil everything down to culture.
What else could it be, then? Do Pakistanis have some special genetics that make them look down on "sex work"?
Not impossible, though hard to believe that's the case.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

deleted_user wrote:
Dolan wrote:
deleted_user wrote:What are the implications for removing the noun "work" from "sex work?"
No actual implications, it's just the fact that that label was created with the specific purpose of dignifying this occupation, that previously was considered demeaning.
It was just part of the Western progressive agenda to validate certain kinds of people or occupation by making them all sound respectable if they're called "work".
It sounds like the implication is to return sex work to its demeaning position.
I think a lot of work is demeaning. There are a myriad of menial jobs that I'd imagine are less stimulating and more replaceable than sex work. I've seen you on these forums routinely invoke a type of job as a personal insult. I think the way to make work less demeaning is by empowering the worker, especially in an industry as historically exploitative as sex.
For being the lack of work, a lot of bad stuff tends to happen during this lack of doing. Harm reduction is good.
If the adjective of the job has no bearing on the quality of the person, I guess I wouldn't buy it from you from my observations above. But if it is as you say it is, and because there must be an implication for removing the concept of work, and it cannot fall on the person, do you let it fall on the profession? Your response seems to say "yes." And if so, what is the point? When I call work demeaning, the point is to point out the oppressive structures and the lack of democracy. What is the point of relegating sex back into a demeaning position?
It's not that big of a deal to me that some people would choose to call this kind of occupation work, I was just expressing some of my doubts that, at least in some cases, this actually involves work. Like in those cases in which the worker does nothing but sits passively and lets the client do some exercising on her body.
There are surely lots of cases in which it does involve work, like when they offer blowjob services or when the service involves role-playing or conversation. Then that could be called work, yeah.
So it's a lot more nuanced position than just saying all types of sex occupations don't involve actual work. Some do.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by harcha »

Even in your absurd example of "just laying there" it actually does take some effort to keep legs spread.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by deleted_user »

Earlier calories were brought up. Are jobs judged jobs by their caloric expenditure?

I burn 25% more calories every day than an individual of normal build, am I working harder at my job?
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

XeeleeFlower wrote:
long quote
Forgot to reply to this.

Well, yeah, as I said, I only consider some kinds of sex occupations to not involve work, those in which the person does nothing but just make the body available to the client, nothing else.
Then it could just be considered a form of renting the use of some parts of the body. I'm sure this wording is going to make someone really agitated and it could make them accuse me of "objectification", but how else can you call the fact that someone is making their body available to someone else, as a tool to satisfy their urges. It's very similar to what landlords do, I think that analogy is useful here.
Though, people who rent are usually not that excited about moving in a new house.
Do you consider acting to be a job? How about people who play sports?
Anything could be a job if someone is willing to pay for it. But calling something "work" implies that some kind of effort is invested in carrying out a task. Which in some cases, like renting a house, I think it doesn't qualify much. A landlord only does occasional work to keep his money-making scheme going, like checking if the houses are in good condition, doing the paperwork, linking with clients, or even getting a team to fix something that might have been broken by a previous tenant. But I'd say this is far from the kind of work required if you have a day job and have to apply yourself at least a few hours per day to get a task done.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

harcha wrote:Even in your absurd example of "just laying there" it actually does take some effort to keep legs spread.
That might account for the 69.1 calories that research shows are spent by women while having sex.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

deleted_user wrote:Earlier calories were brought up. Are jobs judged jobs by their caloric expenditure?

I burn 25% more calories every day than an individual of normal build, am I working harder at my job?
I think they should be judged based on the effort-investment needed to complete a task. Whether physical, mental or both.
Someone could also spend more calories in a resting state, yeah. Like they could be agitated, which would make them sweat more, without necessarily doing any effort.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

Another super-interesting thing to consider in this debate is: if the "sex worker" gets an orgasm during the service more than 50% of times, could this still be considered work?
Because there are lots of 1st person accounts of "sex workers" in which they say that more often than not they do get an orgasm. See, for example, these accounts: https://www.quora.com/As-a-female-sex-w ... ur-clients

Imagine if your day job involved the possibility that 50%+ of the times you do a task you're also likely to get an orgasm. Would you still consider it "work", or an occupation that you also, at least occasionally, enjoy and which also gets you paid.
Read those stories before throwing a fit about these statements, ok.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by harcha »

That's a silly premise. If you enjoy your work, are you then not working?
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

But if you're likely to get an orgasm from that effort, could that still be considered work?
If you like playing football a lot and you feel eager to play football, could that be work if someone who likes watching agrees to pay?
What if they pay you to play football, which you already enjoy a lot and if you're also making money off of it, it's so much the better.

(Playing football is actually a weak example, since it's unlikely anyone gets that excited about playing it, but it gets the point across that you'd be doing some effort that is pleasant to you, because you enjoy the possibility of winning, running around, etc.)
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by harcha »

I think playing football is a fitting example, and I see no reason why it couldn't be considered work.

If you don't like doing your work, you're just not living the dream, maaaan
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

Well, you know how something that originally was a passion and eventually turns into a job could eventually become a bore.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by harcha »

I bet there are sex workers who can relate.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

I don't think most of them do that long enough, tbh
And I doubt that in most cases, it starts out as a passion.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:Another super-interesting thing to consider in this debate is: if the "sex worker" gets an orgasm during the service more than 50% of times, could this still be considered work?
Because there are lots of 1st person accounts of "sex workers" in which they say that more often than not they do get an orgasm. See, for example, these accounts: https://www.quora.com/As-a-female-sex-w ... ur-clients

Imagine if your day job involved the possibility that 50%+ of the times you do a task you're also likely to get an orgasm. Would you still consider it "work", or an occupation that you also, at least occasionally, enjoy and which also gets you paid.
Read those stories before throwing a fit about these statements, ok.
Nothing wrong with Yurkin off at work tbh
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

fightinfrenchman wrote:Nothing wrong with Yurkin off at work tbh
Imagine if your boss said "write that report on those shipments" and you'd know that more than 50% of times while writing reports you get an orgasm. Would you still go to work thinking "fuck this shit, I have to go to work where it's likely I'll get a couple of orgasms today".
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:But if you're likely to get an orgasm from that effort, could that still be considered work?
If you like playing football a lot and you feel eager to play football, could that be work if someone who likes watching agrees to pay?
What if they pay you to play football, which you already enjoy a lot and if you're also making money off of it, it's so much the better.

(Playing football is actually a weak example, since it's unlikely anyone gets that excited about playing it, but it gets the point across that you'd be doing some effort that is pleasant to you, because you enjoy the possibility of winning, running around, etc.)

Having a job you enjoy is bad. Good post, guy who thinks black people are dumb, we all appreciate it a lot
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:Nothing wrong with Yurkin off at work tbh
Imagine if your boss said "write that report on those shipments" and you'd know that more than 50% of times while writing reports you get an orgasm. Would you still go to work thinking "fuck this shit, I have to go to work where it's likely I'll get a couple of orgasms today".
Yes, because I can jerk off on my own time. I would much rather stay home and jerk off than go to work
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by Dolan »

lol
Are you pretending not to get the argument or just genuinely don't get it? I'm implying that getting an orgasm would be the result of doing some menial work, not of jerking off.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

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Post by XeeleeFlower »

Dolan wrote:Another super-interesting thing to consider in this debate is: if the "sex worker" gets an orgasm during the service more than 50% of times, could this still be considered work?
Because there are lots of 1st person accounts of "sex workers" in which they say that more often than not they do get an orgasm. See, for example, these accounts: https://www.quora.com/As-a-female-sex-w ... ur-clients
I just need to address this real quick before diving into the rest of the discussion and seeing if anything else truly deserves my response. This is extremely dangerous thinking. It's like people who orgasm while they're being raped. The body has responses to things whether the individual is enjoying the stimulation or not.
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:lol
Are you pretending not to get the argument or just genuinely don't get it? I'm implying that getting an orgasm would be the result of doing some menial work, not of jerking off.
Yurkin off isn't the same as jerking off though
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Re: Porbhub Backlash and Content Purge

Post by fightinfrenchman »

XeeleeFlower wrote:
Dolan wrote:Another super-interesting thing to consider in this debate is: if the "sex worker" gets an orgasm during the service more than 50% of times, could this still be considered work?
Because there are lots of 1st person accounts of "sex workers" in which they say that more often than not they do get an orgasm. See, for example, these accounts: https://www.quora.com/As-a-female-sex-w ... ur-clients
I just need to address this real quick before diving into the rest of the discussion and seeing if anything else truly deserves my response. This is extremely dangerous thinking. It's like people who orgasm while they're being raped. The body has responses to things whether the individual is enjoying the stimulation or not.
This is correct and a good point but if you follow what he's saying to the logical conclusion then any work that the person working derives any pleasure from shouldn't be paid.
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