PC Building - general topic

[harcha]

why do you think the prices will keep rising?

- The older models that stores still had in stock are gradually getting depleted
- Most high-end GPUs have already been sold out and nVidia and AMD are also affected by supply chain issues so they won't be able to produce much to meet this demand
- Speculators have already bought crates of GPUs, looking to cash in on either selling them to the public with a huge markup or to miners - they might not even have an interest in selling them all fast, just a trickle of GPUs that keeps some on the market, while keeping the rest in reserve for higher profits later
- Miners keep buying up hardware, and this will continue for as long as bitcoin/ETH/w.e don't crash bigly and stay crashed for months
- People are regularly trying to build a PC, even just for productivity not just gaming, and many need a GPU even for professional work. But increasing scarcity keeps driving prices up.
Etc, etc.

It's a host of factors that keep reinforcing the same situation, which was also made worse by the corona crisis. Lots of people stayed at home, both adults and kids, and they were forced to use their own computers either to work from home or to fill their spare time with gaming. So lots of their older rigs got busted, which forced them to look for a new PC. This is an ongoing situation, which is likely to keep prices rising and make even more GPUs disappear from the market.

So if I was to sell any one of the GPUs I have access to, what do you think would be the best time? Many people are saying that the shortage will continue into 2022.

[Goodspeed]

It depends on the price of BTC, the future of which is as uncertain as ever. 2022 definitely doesn't seem like a stretch though

[Dolan]

So if I was to sell any one of the GPUs I have access to, what do you think would be the best time? Many people are saying that the shortage will continue into 2022.

1080ti is listed for close to €400 on Amazon.de. But those are usually unused, either unsold stock or reissued.
Tbh, why would someone buy a used older GPU right now, if not because they found a great deal? I think they would only be willing to buy a used 1080ti if it was a good price. So not sure you can get much right now.
You know that GPUs can accumulate wear too, that's why some people are wary of buying used GPUs, because they're afraid they might be fooled by miners recycling their used cards.
So it's probably a better idea to hold and wait some more. If the situation is getting even more desperate and nothing above GTX 1030 will be available for those who build a new PC, it's possible you might get a good price.

Currently the situation is desperate only for those who want a high-end or newer card, because there are barely any to be found and some of them go for the price of a second-hand car. You can still find some older good cards or midrange ones, albeit overpriced / MSRP.

[harcha]

So if I was to sell any one of the GPUs I have access to, what do you think would be the best time? Many people are saying that the shortage will continue into 2022.

1080ti is listed for close to €400 on Amazon.de. But those are usually unused, either unsold stock or reissued.
Tbh, why would someone buy a used older GPU right now, if not because they found a great deal? I think they would only be willing to buy a used 1080ti if it was a good price. So not sure you can get much right now.
You know that GPUs can accumulate wear too, that's why some people are wary of buying used GPUs, because they're afraid they might be fooled by miners recycling their used cards.
So it's probably a better idea to hold and wait some more. If the situation is getting even more desperate and nothing above GTX 1030 will be available for those who build a new PC, it's possible you might get a good price.

Currently the situation is desperate only for those who want a high-end or newer card, because there are barely any to be found and some of them go for the price of a second-hand car. You can still find some older good cards or midrange ones, albeit overpriced / MSRP.

I see your point, but I haven't had a bad experience buying used GPUs (I haven't been interested in the models that were best for mining tho) and I don't see why other people would be too weary buying 1080ti.

After all 1080ti for 400 bucks would be an awesome find now. Consider these listings of similarly powered cards:
- 1080ti new for 1000eur (only see 2 listings), used for 700eur and up,
- 2070super new for 1070eur (only see 1 listing), used for 800eur and up,
- 3060 new for 900eur (i suspect this is a wait-list considering my experience with this shop), scalped new starting 850eur.

I think I could easily get 600 for my 1080ti right now(and it's a blower style). So I wonder... if I was to sell, would it be a good time now, or would it be more profitable to wait.

With some quick google results it looks like you can make more than 3 USD profit per day with the 3060. Considering that ETH mining is still profitable, all new stock will be sent directly to the boiler room.

This leads me to believe that the 1080ti used going price will keep edging closer towards the price of 2070super, which edges closer to the going rate of 3060. It will probably go up to 800eur if nothing changes.

[Dolan]

That's possible. Even if market conditions improve, like thanks to a subsiding corona crisis, I don't expect prices to come back down quickly.
But I doubt market conditions will improve anytime soon.

And even then, things don't move that quickly on hardware markets, it takes a while for any trend to set in.

[harcha]

Yeah some bloggers also said that this situation is likely to increase the new prices of all the cards for a long time. Why would the fabs sell capacity for less when industry customers are lining up to the limited capacity as is.

But the better barometer of GPU market is the used market, which also won't see any additional stock before ETH mining dies down (unless AMD production can save the market, as these are less useful for mining?)

[Dolan]

Nvidia has already started producing GTX 1050 Ti again, because apparently the big problem that caused the current scarcity situation is GDDR6 memory shortage.

For months, rumors have said that there’s a shortage of the GDDR6 memory used with modern GPUs, and if that’s indeed the case, rolling out the GDDR5-equipped 1050 Ti again lets Nvidia build affordable hardware without tapping into its precious GDDR6 reserves. The capacity matters just as much. Part of the reason for the current GPU crunch is due to the Ethereum cryptocoin mining bubble, which is insanely profitable right now. Ethereum gets mined on graphics cards, unlike Bitcoin, but requires a GPU with more than 4GB of onboard memory. Bottom line: the reborn GTX 1050 Ti can’t be used to mine Ethereum so it won't appeal to those buyers.

So they decided to manufacture or release more older GPUs, because there's a buck to be made even in this market.
But that doesn't mean prices will go down, it just means Nvidia and resellers will make higher profits from a squeezed market.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3607190 ... -2060.html

Luckily, the GTX 1650 I managed to buy has GDDR6 memory, so it might be worth its weight in gold later this year.

[harcha]

i'm not familiar with ebay auctions at all, but it looks like people are busy auctioning off every videocard. just checked out the 1080tis, lookin lively

[harcha]

(unless AMD production can save the market, as these are less useful for mining?)

i take that back, it looks like all cards work well for the power virus, even with an exaggerated price of electricity
https://whattomine.com/gpus?cost=0.28&button=

[Dolan]

Finished building the new PC.
It ran on the first try, no issues.
I might post pics, once I manage the cables.
So far I'm not impressed, the leap from the previous mobile CPU i5-3210m to the current i5-11500 doesn't seem that impressive. It's better, but not insanely better.
The GPU leap from that integrated one to the current GTX 1650 was somewhat more impressive. Like in LoL it went from struggling with 40 FPS to breezing through 300 FPS and beyond on the highest settings.
Can't wait to add a highend PCIe 4 SSD at some point and see if that makes a big difference. Currently running on a Samsung EVO SATA SSD.

[Horsemen]

any crypto bros selling cheap GPUs after the recent crash? Will pay in dogecoin

[harcha]

what crash? https://whattomine.com/gpus?

[Jam]

[Horsemen]

what crash? https://whattomine.com/gpus?

almost as useful as http://whattimeisit.com/

[harcha]

point being it's still profitable. ETH price has fallen, but difficulty also fell a small amount.

[Goodspeed]

Are the costs of having to replace your GPU early because of wear calculated in there? Or is that a negligible issue?

[harcha]

it's just a site where you can chuck in your electricity costs to see how profitable ETH mining would be with the current price/difficulty. i have no experience in actual mining, but i'd assume it's only for the running costs, and not the upfront ones

that being said i don't think mining kills GPUs all that fast, at least i haven't heard of it. but chia mining does kill consumer class SSDs pretty quickly.

[lemmings121]

Can't wait to add a highend PCIe 4 SSD at some point and see if that makes a big difference. Currently running on a Samsung EVO SATA SSD.

did some research a while ago and wasnt really impressed, huge price bump for a couple % faster load times. I dont think its really worth it unless prices have changed or some new tech changed how big the diference is

[Dolan]

Can't wait to add a highend PCIe 4 SSD at some point and see if that makes a big difference. Currently running on a Samsung EVO SATA SSD.

did some research a while ago and wasnt really impressed, huge price bump for a couple % faster load times. I dont think its really worth it unless prices have changed or some new tech changed how big the diference is

I think it's worth it, but it depends on how much you want to spend for the extra speed.
Classic inexpensive SSDs that you can connect through SATA usually have speeds around 500MB/s, on both reading and writing. For example, something like the Samsung 870 EVO (250GB) which sells for around 60 bucks here.
Entry-level NVMe SSDs that you can connect through M.2 and support PCIe 3.0 can write data almost two times faster and read almost 5 times faster. That's a significant increase in performance, it means that these operations can be done 5 times faster: launching a program, a game, displaying file previews in explorer, opening a big file in a content-editing program (like Photoshop or Premiere).

The newer generation of NVMe SSDs that support PCIe 4.0 can go above 5GB/s in terms of both reading and writing data. That's a massive improvement over the old SATA SSDs. But this kind of speeds you can only find in the higher-end PCIe 4 SSDs, like Samsung 980 Pro, which sells for about 170 bucks here for the 500GB version.

I got the WD Blue SN550 at 500GB, which is the best value PCIe 3.0 you can get right now in terms of performance/price. For 80 bucks, it can write data at 1.75GB/s and can read at 2.4GB/s. It's a steal tbh. And yeah, I am noticing a big difference compared to the classic SATA SSD from Samsung I was using before. Most programs open in just 1-2 seconds at most and basic stuff gets done instantly.

But it also depends on what kind of system you have, if you put it in some gen 4 i5 with old RAM, it will get bottlenecked by the system. I have a new system with gen 11 i5-11500, so it can push data around pretty fast, even if it's more of a midrange or just above midrange system.

[lemmings121]

Can't wait to add a highend PCIe 4 SSD at some point and see if that makes a big difference. Currently running on a Samsung EVO SATA SSD.

did some research a while ago and wasnt really impressed, huge price bump for a couple % faster load times. I dont think its really worth it unless prices have changed or some new tech changed how big the diference is

I think it's worth it, but it depends on how much you want to spend for the extra speed.
Classic inexpensive SSDs that you can connect through SATA usually have speeds around 500MB/s, on both reading and writing. For example, something like the Samsung 870 EVO (250GB) which sells for around 60 bucks here.
Entry-level NVMe SSDs that you can connect through M.2 and support PCIe 3.0 can write data almost two times faster and read almost 5 times faster. That's a significant increase in performance, it means that these operations can be done 5 times faster: launching a program, a game, displaying file previews in explorer, opening a big file in a content-editing program (like Photoshop or Premiere).

The newer generation of NVMe SSDs that support PCIe 4.0 can go above 5GB/s in terms of both reading and writing data. That's a massive improvement over the old SATA SSDs. But this kind of speeds you can only find in the higher-end PCIe 4 SSDs, like Samsung 980 Pro, which sells for about 170 bucks here for the 500GB version.

I got the WD Blue SN550 at 500GB, which is the best value PCIe 3.0 you can get right now in terms of performance/price. For 80 bucks, it can write data at 1.75GB/s and can read at 2.4GB/s. It's a steal tbh. And yeah, I am noticing a big difference compared to the classic SATA SSD from Samsung I was using before. Most programs open in just 1-2 seconds at most and basic stuff gets done instantly.

But it also depends on what kind of system you have, if you put it in some gen 4 i5 with old RAM, it will get bottlenecked by the system. I have a new system with gen 11 i5-11500, so it can push data around pretty fast, even if it's more of a midrange or just above midrange system.

yeah, but those speeds are all in some very ideal situations, while the speed in theory shows the game should launch 5 times faster, I remember seeing benchmarks that in practice, opening a game was like not that much faster.
edit

video

Just google a bit here and got this video. Opening battlefield V in 18 seconds vs 17.30, forza in 11.4 vs 11.1 ...the most significant was windows at 14.4 vs 12.7 so yeah, there is a improvement, but doesnt look like something I would budget a lot to upgrade, unless the price diference isnt too big

[Dsy]

I think you shouldnt get opinion on hardware from fake channels lol.
Once this channel claimed it OC-d a cpu which was mentioned in other (not fake) channels that its impossible to reach.

[Dolan]

@lemmings121
I'm not sure what they are measuring there. How a game runs on each drive? Because I haven't seen them actually load every game, going through the menus, starting a game, etc. They just show game footage, as if a game jumps directly from the OS to gameplay.
So what is that comparison supposed to show? Once a game has loaded the files, it doesn't do as much disk reading as it did at start.

They should compare SATA SSD vs NVME SATA PCIE 3 vs NVME SATA PCIE 4 in such tasks:
- loading times for games, starting from clicking on the icon to actually getting to the starting menu
- opening a large file in a content editing program like video editors
- capturing video locally
- transferring files on the same drive
- OS boot loading times

This is the kind of tasks in which you'll see a huge difference between SATA SSD and PCIE NVME SSDs, for sure.
But again it depends how much you work with this kind of tasks. For someone who does video editing professionally, having the fastest drives makes a big difference.

[RefluxSemantic]

A factor 10 in speed is kinda interesting. If you go from 50 seconds to 5 seconds loading time that's great. Going from 1 to 0.1 is still nice but you won't really notice, and going from 0.1 to 0.01 is just kinda irrelevant. Something to keep in mind.

For example I appreciate that my pc boots up in a couple of seconds. Much faster than that is cool, but really not that big of a deal. If it boots up a game in 1 second or 5 seconds doesn't really matter to me. You do it one time and then you're just playing the game. But I also played some pillars of eternity 2 on an HDD and poe2 is a horrificly poorly optimized game with tons and tons of loading screens ingame. Having an SSD improved the experience a lot and even then I'd appreciate having an even faster SSD.

[princeofcarthage]

A factor 10 in speed is kinda interesting. If you go from 50 seconds to 5 seconds loading time that's great. Going from 1 to 0.1 is still nice but you won't really notice, and going from 0.1 to 0.01 is just kinda irrelevant. Something to keep in mind.

For example I appreciate that my pc boots up in a couple of seconds. Much faster than that is cool, but really not that big of a deal. If it boots up a game in 1 second or 5 seconds doesn't really matter to me. You do it one time and then you're just playing the game. But I also played some pillars of eternity 2 on an HDD and poe2 is a horrificly poorly optimized game with tons and tons of loading screens ingame. Having an SSD improved the experience a lot and even then I'd appreciate having an even faster SSD.

I played Poe2 on hdd and I din't remember having loading screens more than 10 secs tbh

[RefluxSemantic]

A factor 10 in speed is kinda interesting. If you go from 50 seconds to 5 seconds loading time that's great. Going from 1 to 0.1 is still nice but you won't really notice, and going from 0.1 to 0.01 is just kinda irrelevant. Something to keep in mind.

For example I appreciate that my pc boots up in a couple of seconds. Much faster than that is cool, but really not that big of a deal. If it boots up a game in 1 second or 5 seconds doesn't really matter to me. You do it one time and then you're just playing the game. But I also played some pillars of eternity 2 on an HDD and poe2 is a horrificly poorly optimized game with tons and tons of loading screens ingame. Having an SSD improved the experience a lot and even then I'd appreciate having an even faster SSD.

I played Poe2 on hdd and I din't remember having loading screens more than 10 secs tbh

Thats gotta be false. Poe2 has loading times of multiple seconds for large areas on my 3+ GBps SSD. Theres no way an hdd can load neketaka in any reasonable amount of time.

Tbh Poe2 is the most poorly optimized game I have ever played. Its just pure shit. Sucks that the rpg mechanics are so good so I keep playing it.