Housing Crisis

[Dolan]

And what would be the cost of 1bhk in city proper

An ok flat in an average city would cost about €50000 = 4412400 INR.

[harcha]

Maybe I am spoiled, but I don't really consider living in a 68 m² appartment with 3 people to be too great. I wish everyone could just have a normal house.

lol

[duckzilla]

Maybe I am spoiled, but I don't really consider living in a 68 m² appartment with 3 people to be too great. I wish everyone could just have a normal house.

In short: yes, you are spoiled.

Your wish is also unlikely to become true. A typical house (in Germany) for a single family needs 150m² of open space. If all 7.7bn inhabitants of our planet had a "normal" house, the necessary space would accumulate to 1,155,000,000,000 m². Unfortunately, the entire planet has only 149,400,000 km² of land space. So even if 8 people would share such a "normal" house, the entire land space of the planet would consist of nothing else but houses. Math bad, problem still there

The attitude of wanting more space is understandable and somewhat rooted in the human nature. It is the major reason why housing is such a problem. Most people try to acquire as much space as they can afford. Since space is limited, it drives prices upwards and makes it impossible for lower income classes to find suitable housing in popular cities. I can only recommend to rethink what you need that much space for and how much you could be satisfied with. In the end, you might find a chance to save some money, reduce societal problems, and improve your personal environmental impact.

[princeofcarthage]

And what would be the cost of 1bhk in city proper

An ok flat in an average city would cost about €50000 = 4412400 INR.

So that's about 145 times. I rest my case. My dads company 3-4 years ago actually did research on house prices at different levels against income at different levels and that general trend is pretty similar in most countries.

[princeofcarthage]

@duckzilla pls check your math

[duckzilla]

@duckzilla pls check your math

Good point, still drunk because the famous 1. FC Cologne won the relegation match yesterday.

[RefluxSemantic]

Maybe I am spoiled, but I don't really consider living in a 68 m² appartment with 3 people to be too great. I wish everyone could just have a normal house.

In short: yes, you are spoiled.

Your wish is also unlikely to become true. A typical house (in Germany) for a single family needs 150m² of open space. If all 7.7bn inhabitants of our planet had a "normal" house, the necessary space would accumulate to 1,155,000,000,000 m². Unfortunately, the entire planet has only 149,400,000 km² of land space. So even if 8 people would share such a "normal" house, the entire land space of the planet would consist of nothing else but houses. Math bad, problem still there

The attitude of wanting more space is understandable and somewhat rooted in the human nature. It is the major reason why housing is such a problem. Most people try to acquire as much space as they can afford. Since space is limited, it drives prices upwards and makes it impossible for lower income classes to find suitable housing in popular cities. I can only recommend to rethink what you need that much space for and how much you could be satisfied with. In the end, you might find a chance to save some money, reduce societal problems, and improve your personal environmental impact.

I think the math is off yeah. There's enough space in NL to give 270 million people 150m² of land. Which can be like 300+ m² of house.

[harcha]

Maybe I am spoiled, but I don't really consider living in a 68 m² appartment with 3 people to be too great. I wish everyone could just have a normal house.

In short: yes, you are spoiled.

Your wish is also unlikely to become true. A typical house (in Germany) for a single family needs 150m² of open space. If all 7.7bn inhabitants of our planet had a "normal" house, the necessary space would accumulate to 1,155,000,000,000 m². Unfortunately, the entire planet has only 149,400,000 km² of land space. So even if 8 people would share such a "normal" house, the entire land space of the planet would consist of nothing else but houses. Math bad, problem still there

The attitude of wanting more space is understandable and somewhat rooted in the human nature. It is the major reason why housing is such a problem. Most people try to acquire as much space as they can afford. Since space is limited, it drives prices upwards and makes it impossible for lower income classes to find suitable housing in popular cities. I can only recommend to rethink what you need that much space for and how much you could be satisfied with. In the end, you might find a chance to save some money, reduce societal problems, and improve your personal environmental impact.

I think the math is off yeah. There's enough space in NL to give 270 million people 150m² of land. Which can be like 300+ m² of house.

1) You wouldn't want to live in a place where everyone has a house, because commuting would be an absolute nightmare. It would bring the life quality of the average netherlander way down.
2) 150m² of land is nowhere near enough for a comfortable 300+ m² house. Here land area equates to about the max allowable house area, but realistically this is still uncomfortable living - usually only done for crowded houses in the middle of the city.

[princeofcarthage]

Math is completely, completely off.

Lets assume 8 billion people for sake of simplicity.
Lets assume about 4 people on average in a family.
So you basically have 2 billion families.

Now mind you 150 m2 is actually not a very big area as Jerom suggested. 300 m2 is probably bit more ideal which roughly equates to 3200 sq ft. So I am basing my calculation on 300 m2.

So 2 billion * 300 = 600 billion sq meters.
Now dividing by 1,000,000 to get sq kms, that is 600,000 sq kms. Yeah that area is smaller than India.

But a sprawling metropolis is less efficient than tall, while tall can result in more time for smaller tasks which means you need better micromanagement or integrated skyscrapers. For ex. If I want milk, I can practically get it within 1 min. If I lived in a skyscraper it would take me 10 mins.

[RefluxSemantic]

Show hidden quotes

Maybe I am spoiled, but I don't really consider living in a 68 m² appartment with 3 people to be too great. I wish everyone could just have a normal house.

In short: yes, you are spoiled.

Your wish is also unlikely to become true. A typical house (in Germany) for a single family needs 150m² of open space. If all 7.7bn inhabitants of our planet had a "normal" house, the necessary space would accumulate to 1,155,000,000,000 m². Unfortunately, the entire planet has only 149,400,000 km² of land space. So even if 8 people would share such a "normal" house, the entire land space of the planet would consist of nothing else but houses. Math bad, problem still there

The attitude of wanting more space is understandable and somewhat rooted in the human nature. It is the major reason why housing is such a problem. Most people try to acquire as much space as they can afford. Since space is limited, it drives prices upwards and makes it impossible for lower income classes to find suitable housing in popular cities. I can only recommend to rethink what you need that much space for and how much you could be satisfied with. In the end, you might find a chance to save some money, reduce societal problems, and improve your personal environmental impact.

I think the math is off yeah. There's enough space in NL to give 270 million people 150m² of land. Which can be like 300+ m² of house.

1) You wouldn't want to live in a place where everyone has a house, because commuting would be an absolute nightmare. It would bring the life quality of the average netherlander way down.
2) 150m² of land is nowhere near enough for a comfortable 300+ m² house. Here land area equates to about the max allowable house area, but realistically this is still uncomfortable living - usually only done for crowded houses in the middle of the city.

I think you completely missed the point. In principle there is enough space for everyone to own a decent sized house. Maybe you missed the part where I said there is enough absolute space for 270 million people. We have 17 million people and NL is one of the most densely populated regions of the world.

[Dolan]

So that's about 145 times. I rest my case. My dads company 3-4 years ago actually did research on house prices at different levels against income at different levels and that general trend is pretty similar in most countries.

What was your point, that only people from the middle class upwards deserve to have their own place?

[princeofcarthage]

Show hidden quotes

And what would be the cost of 1bhk in city proper

An ok flat in an average city would cost about €50000 = 4412400 INR.

So that's about 145 times. I rest my case. My dads company 3-4 years ago actually did research on house prices at different levels against income at different levels and that general trend is pretty similar in most countries.

What was your point, that only people from the middle class upwards deserve to have their own place?

No, but they are the ones who actually buy. A person earning 343 Euros is never going to buy his own place.

[RefluxSemantic]

Math is completely, completely off.

Lets assume 8 billion people for sake of simplicity.
Lets assume about 4 people on average in a family.
So you basically have 2 billion families.

Now mind you 150 m2 is actually not a very big area as Jerom suggested. 300 m2 is probably bit more ideal which roughly equates to 3200 sq ft. So I am basing my calculation on 300 m2.

So 2 billion * 300 = 600 billion sq meters.
Now dividing by 1,000,000 to get sq kms, that is 600,000 sq kms. Yeah that area is smaller than India.

Living space is calculated in terms of floor area. So on 150 m² you can for example build a 3 story 100m² house + 50 m² garden, so 300 m² living space + 50 m² garden. Also, the calculations indeed assumed only single person households.

[princeofcarthage]

.

[Dolan]

What was your point, that only people from the middle class upwards deserve to have their own place?

No, but they are the ones who actually buy. A person earning 343 Euros is never going to buy his own place.

They can get social housing.

[RefluxSemantic]

Just looking up some numbers, the average Dutchman has 68 m² of living space per person, so with average living space Duckzilla would have 204 m² of living space. The idea that all families should have 150m² is not that weird at all. Even in Amsterdam the average is almost 50 m² per person. It's just a matter of more fairly distributing living spaces.
https://www.nu.nl/wonen/5294174/nederla ... lakte.html

[harcha]

Show hidden quotes

Maybe I am spoiled, but I don't really consider living in a 68 m² appartment with 3 people to be too great. I wish everyone could just have a normal house.

In short: yes, you are spoiled.

Your wish is also unlikely to become true. A typical house (in Germany) for a single family needs 150m² of open space. If all 7.7bn inhabitants of our planet had a "normal" house, the necessary space would accumulate to 1,155,000,000,000 m². Unfortunately, the entire planet has only 149,400,000 km² of land space. So even if 8 people would share such a "normal" house, the entire land space of the planet would consist of nothing else but houses. Math bad, problem still there

The attitude of wanting more space is understandable and somewhat rooted in the human nature. It is the major reason why housing is such a problem. Most people try to acquire as much space as they can afford. Since space is limited, it drives prices upwards and makes it impossible for lower income classes to find suitable housing in popular cities. I can only recommend to rethink what you need that much space for and how much you could be satisfied with. In the end, you might find a chance to save some money, reduce societal problems, and improve your personal environmental impact.

I think the math is off yeah. There's enough space in NL to give 270 million people 150m² of land. Which can be like 300+ m² of house.

1) You wouldn't want to live in a place where everyone has a house, because commuting would be an absolute nightmare. It would bring the life quality of the average netherlander way down.
2) 150m² of land is nowhere near enough for a comfortable 300+ m² house. Here land area equates to about the max allowable house area, but realistically this is still uncomfortable living - usually only done for crowded houses in the middle of the city.

I think you completely missed the point. In principle there is enough space for everyone to own a decent sized house. Maybe you missed the part where I said there is enough absolute space for 270 million people. We have 17 million people and NL is one of the most densely populated regions of the world.

I see your point, there is enough space. But I think such city planning (or rather suburbia sprawl planning) is very undesirable, and I wouldn't want to live there. The goal of wanting a house is valid, but I don't think everyone should have a house, at least not in the city. I think apartments in the city and secondary houses for the middle class and up in the country is a fine option IMO.

[princeofcarthage]

Math is completely, completely off.

Lets assume 8 billion people for sake of simplicity.
Lets assume about 4 people on average in a family.
So you basically have 2 billion families.

Now mind you 150 m2 is actually not a very big area as Jerom suggested. 300 m2 is probably bit more ideal which roughly equates to 3200 sq ft. So I am basing my calculation on 300 m2.

So 2 billion * 300 = 600 billion sq meters.
Now dividing by 1,000,000 to get sq kms, that is 600,000 sq kms. Yeah that area is smaller than India.

Living space is calculated in terms of floor area. So on 150 m² you can for example build a 3 story 100m² house + 50 m² garden, so 300 m² living space + 50 m² garden. Also, the calculations indeed assumed only single person households.

I know how its calculated lol. But my point is even with 300 m2 you enough space.

[princeofcarthage]

What was your point, that only people from the middle class upwards deserve to have their own place?

No, but they are the ones who actually buy. A person earning 343 Euros is never going to buy his own place.

They can get social housing.

Thats a different thing

[harcha]

@RefluxSemantic my point: the comfortable living in outskirts of Las Vegas. Think commuting and accessibility to public transport, shops, schools, hospitals.

[Dolan]

That's terrible.
Those suburbs all have the same McMansions built around a shopping center. They're like the American version of commie blocks.

[RefluxSemantic]

I lived in a new neighboorhood and it was honestly lovely. Would be so happy if I could live in a similar house.

[princeofcarthage]

That's terrible.
Those suburbs all have the same McMansions built around a shopping center. They're like the American version of commie blocks.

looks like cities skylines screenshot tbh

[princeofcarthage]

@RefluxSemantic my point: the comfortable living in outskirts of Las Vegas. Think commuting and accessibility to public transport, shops, schools, hospitals.

I don't think commuting or accessibility is a problem. I have at least 3 international schools, 3 top quality hospitals in 20 min drive. I have all shops near me and I can buy most day 2 day things within 5 mins walking. I have 4 malls out which 1 is luxury mall, 1 is the 2nd or 3rd largest mall in India and other is themed mall. I have entertainment and water park within 1 hr. Numerous theatres. Game places, 5 star restaurants, even michelin starred (similar) level. Of course Indian suburbs are still different compared to European or American. The main issue of sprawling or wide city against a tall city is efficiency of resources.

[Goodspeed]

Prices in the bigger cities here are ridiculous compared to other places, even if those places have all the utilities. And sure, there's limited space in a city like Amsterdam, but is that really a space issue? Or is the issue that too many people want to live in Amsterdam?
I don't think people are spoiled by space as much as they are spoiled by location @duckzilla
We can probably choose between 150m2 in the middle of nowhere or 80 in a city. Most people choose the city.