Re: Pandora Papers

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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Goodspeed »

Dolan wrote:Did anyone actually check the data, the actual "papers".
I downloaded all the data in CSV format
No you didn't. It's 12 million documents totaling 2.9 TB. You probably downloaded some summary that may or may not paint a complete picture.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

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RefluxSemantic wrote:I'm too cynical about the world to even get upset about this
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/l ... story.html
The game is rigged, the plots are laid, and there’s nothing that people like you and me can do except lean back and nod sagely as the black helicopters land.
*Nods sagely*
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by callentournies »

Goodspeed wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:I'm too cynical about the world to even get upset about this
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/l ... story.html
The game is rigged, the plots are laid, and there’s nothing that people like you and me can do except lean back and nod sagely as the black helicopters land.
*Nods sagely*
Uncompelling start. Basically, “These appeals to extremes are bad.”

It’s useless to try to (in)validate pessimism. Basically no one can understand anyone. And ourselves are everything, so a default authority in speech emerges however misplaced, appearing absurd to everyone that isn’t them, and basically we both get and never quite get used to this.

Could just as well write about pessimism as brought about by information. Informed.
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
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Me a ribbon, they, all dead
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United States of America Cometk
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Cometk »

Momuu is right
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by RefluxSemantic »

That article calls cynicism naive on the premise that you can actually make a difference with regards to matters like this. Thats pretty ironic because I find that argument to be incredibly naive.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Goodspeed »

callentournies wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:I'm too cynical about the world to even get upset about this
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/l ... story.html
The game is rigged, the plots are laid, and there’s nothing that people like you and me can do except lean back and nod sagely as the black helicopters land.
*Nods sagely*
Uncompelling start. Basically, “These appeals to extremes are bad.”

It’s useless to try to (in)validate pessimism. Basically no one can understand anyone. And ourselves are everything, so a default authority in speech emerges however misplaced, appearing absurd to everyone that isn’t them, and basically we both get and never quite get used to this.

Could just as well write about pessimism as brought about by information. Informed.
It's not a great piece but has some good lines and served more as a discussion starter than anything else.

Yeah, no one understands anyone. But we can try harder.

I personally think both pessimism and cynicism are perfectly valid in 2021. But I don't intend to make any points about about their validity, rather about their effect. Most relevantly their effect on the future of humanity. Apathy and acceptance are the biggest enemies of change.

The online response to the release of the Pandora papers has made me look inward at my own cynicism and apathy. It has me thinking that my state of mind about the world's affairs, however valid, is one of the bigger parts of the problem, as well as unhealthy.
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by RefluxSemantic »

The idea that cynicism = apathy is really dumb. It's actually not possible to be cynical and apathic at the same time.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Goodspeed »

I didn't mean to imply cynicism is the same as apathy. They often go hand in hand though
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by RefluxSemantic »

They can't go hand in hand..
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Goodspeed »

RefluxSemantic wrote:I'm too cynical about the world to even get upset about this
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by RefluxSemantic »

I'm too cynical about the world to really get upset about these papers because I'm in a constant state of cynicism already. These papers really don't tell me anything I didn't already know or believe.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Goodspeed »

So are or aren't you upset?
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Dolan »

Goodspeed wrote:
Dolan wrote:Did anyone actually check the data, the actual "papers".
I downloaded all the data in CSV format
No you didn't. It's 12 million documents totaling 2.9 TB. You probably downloaded some summary that may or may not paint a complete picture.
I'm aware of that. I already posted that apparently there are more data somewhere, but I downloaded everything this consortium made available on their site: https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/pages/database
So the question is why are they not making these data available.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Goodspeed »

Because it's 2.9 TB? It wouldn't be of any use to anyone unless they shared their entire internal software platform that they use to view it, which I'm sure is too complicated to just throw in a .zip
https://www.icij.org/investigations/pan ... k-dataset/
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Goodspeed wrote:So are or aren't you upset?
I'm sure you will realize that being apathic is mutually exclusive with being cynical at some point.
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Latvia harcha
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by harcha »

iNcog wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:Like what did you guys think? That multi-millionaires and billionaires actually pay their fair share of taxes? What's next, being shocked at the fact that lobbyist influence politics on a day to day basis?
I dont see how apathy solves anything
maybe one is over trying to solve anything because of the apathy
Dolan wrote:The media need to present a consistent case. Apparently there's more than a terrabyte of docs, but I couldn't find them. They should start actually showing which docs they used to make these allegations.
It's not enough to just say so
is it not? welcome to 2021

we should hang them all. a man can wish
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Dolan »

Goodspeed wrote:Because it's 2.9 TB? It wouldn't be of any use to anyone unless they shared their entire internal software platform that they use to view it, which I'm sure is too complicated to just throw in a .zip
https://www.icij.org/investigations/pan ... k-dataset/
They can make it availble in chunks. Plenty of CDNs that could handle multiple parallel download requests.
And, well, for many people probably only some chunks would be interesting to check, not everything.

But now that I've read that page you linked, they say they've only made about 4% of data available so far, because it's not completely processed:
Only 4% of the files were structured, with data organized in tables (spreadsheets, csv files and a few “dbf files”).
Looking forward to seeing more as they make it available. Just saying things in the media is not enough, we need to see the evidence.
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Djigit »

Goodspeed wrote:
Djigit wrote:Jeez that was cringe to read even for me.
Take a sip of that exquisite ratio.
What was cringe about it? And why the "even for me" addition?
His comment read like something straight outta reddit and that's a faux pas here.
+ I got outratio'd, which makes things even more problematic for my online career.
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by callentournies »

Goodspeed wrote:
callentournies wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Uncompelling start. Basically, “These appeals to extremes are bad.”

It’s useless to try to (in)validate pessimism. Basically no one can understand anyone. And ourselves are everything, so a default authority in speech emerges however misplaced, appearing absurd to everyone that isn’t them, and basically we both get and never quite get used to this.

Could just as well write about pessimism as brought about by information. Informed.
It's not a great piece but has some good lines and served more as a discussion starter than anything else.

Yeah, no one understands anyone. But we can try harder.

I personally think both pessimism and cynicism are perfectly valid in 2021. But I don't intend to make any points about about their validity, rather about their effect. Most relevantly their effect on the future of humanity. Apathy and acceptance are the biggest enemies of change.

The online response to the release of the Pandora papers has made me look inward at my own cynicism and apathy. It has me thinking that my state of mind about the world's affairs, however valid, is one of the bigger parts of the problem, as well as unhealthy.
pretty reasonable
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
France iNcog
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by iNcog »

Djigit wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Djigit wrote:Jeez that was cringe to read even for me.
Take a sip of that exquisite ratio.
What was cringe about it? And why the "even for me" addition?
His comment read like something straight outta reddit and that's a faux pas here.
+ I got outratio'd, which makes things even more problematic for my online career.
i wanted to start the thread with no effort in my OP what can I say
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Djigit »

iNcog wrote:
Djigit wrote:
Show hidden quotes
His comment read like something straight outta reddit and that's a faux pas here.
+ I got outratio'd, which makes things even more problematic for my online career.
i wanted to start the thread with no effort in my OP what can I say
Outratio'ing me was not enough. You had to rub salt into my wound.
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by princeofcarthage »

Djigit wrote:
iNcog wrote:
Show hidden quotes
i wanted to start the thread with no effort in my OP what can I say
Outratio'ing me was not enough. You had to rub salt into my wound.
No, not salt, chilli, red, green chilli, with a tinge of turmeric. And maybe some salt then.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Djigit »

princeofcarthage wrote:
Djigit wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Outratio'ing me was not enough. You had to rub salt into my wound.
No, not salt, chilli, red, green chilli, with a tinge of turmeric. And maybe some salt then.
ratio
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India rsy
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by rsy »

Djigit wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:
Show hidden quotes
No, not salt, chilli, red, green chilli, with a tinge of turmeric. And maybe some salt then.
ratio
W
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Re: Re: Pandora Papers

Post by Djigit »

rsy wrote:
Djigit wrote:
Show hidden quotes
ratio
W
real recognize real

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