Ukraine Invaded By Russia

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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofkabul »

I'd think Russia is not ready to nuke it out (famous last words). I'm all for military intervention, because Russians only respect show of power. Russian leaders are disgusted by weakness, and that has basically lead up to this situation in the first place.

Ukraine's situation was exactly how it was to Finns in WW 2, winter war. I symphatize to this. Ukraine wasn't ready for this war, against much bigger warmachine. Ukraine needs aid with equipment, but also straight up military intervention by west. I might be optimistic here but rough actions now could lead to change of leadership in Russia. If West doesn't interfere, there will be again a hostile president in the future, and Russian civilians be will suffering, as they have god knows for how long.

Im hoping that European leaders would start act according to their status, not bowing to Russians. Europe that is united is by itself a factor to decrease Russian foreign politics and political power in Europe. Finally German leaders are showing guts. Too bad there have been too many Putin/Rus symphatizers in the past, that has created this abnormal situation, when what they should've have done is to put Putin to his place the moment he got in to position of power in early 2000's.

Russia is rich by natural resources, but their influence in global scale is so overrated. In reality when you cross the border, you are entering to a 3rd world country.
All they have and play with are the nukes, in a conventional warfare west would wipe out Russian military in matter of weeks.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by Dolan »

Russia is basically Brazil with nukes, but they got this mindset that "we have a lot of land and nukes so you need to listen to us like we're a big power, ok".
Any big economic power can get a big pile of nukes and match Russia's stockpile, but they didn't want to encourage this, coz obviously then the whole world would go big on nukes. Maybe we should do that so they can stfu about nukes tbh.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofkabul »

Dolan wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 10:42
Russia is basically Brazil with nukes, but they got this mindset that "we have a lot of land and nukes so you need to listen to us like we're a big power, ok".
Any big economic power can get a big pile of nukes and match Russia's stockpile, but they didn't want to encourage this, coz obviously then the whole world would go big on nukes. Maybe we should do that so they can stfu about nukes tbh.
Well said.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by RefluxSemantic »

The problem is that nukes are a pretty scary threat.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by scarm »

That's the big dilemma right there.

The only cynical ray of sun (for us) is that there's no way in hell that Russia has any capability to wage a conventional war against NATO in the short- midterm future.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by scarm »

@princeofkabul do you think Finland is going to join NATO? Is the change in public opinion stable and decisive enough?
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofkabul »

scarm wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 12:32
@princeofkabul do you think Finland is going to join NATO? Is the change in public opinion stable and decisive enough?
I can only hope so, the public opinion is shifting towards joining NATO, but decisively enough? Hard to say yeat.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by knusch »

might wanna keep it more low key and sign papers first before announcing it xD
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofcarthage »

Pretty ballsy move to think off considering what happened to Ukraine when they attempted to join NATO.

As far as I am aware there is no significant border dispute with Sweden or Finland. There is no question of identity here. As far as I am aware there is no claim to any lands. So basically there is no dispute. Neutrality has worked so far. Jumping the gun when barrel is red hot doesn't make sense. Besides sweden is a much formidable power as compare to Ukraine.

Sweden pretty much remained neutral for most of ww2 and came pretty unscathed. Why risk it
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by Goodspeed »

Sweden doesn't border Russia
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by Dolan »

princeofcarthage wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 13:45
Besides sweden is a much formidable power as compare to Ukraine.
Sweden is much weaker from a military pov than Ukraine. They just are a richer country with shinier tech, but Ukraine has 10 times more active and reserve personnel. In a land invasion numbers count a lot more. That's why Russians now keep advancing despite losing so many soldiers and equipment. Because Ukrainians kill a few tens of soldiers here and there, capture some tanks, but hundreds more Russian soldiers and tens of more tanks come to replace them. Slowly but surely, Russia is advancing and taking over the big cities close to the border and coast.

Sweden would have been overwhelmed much faster than Ukraine. Maybe the only thing that would have played in their favour was the fact that the north of Sweden is very cold with lots of swamps and lakes, which is hell to invade with big convoys of heavy armoured vehicles.
And ofc they don't have a border with Russia so Russia would have to deal with Finland first.
But they could try invade via coastline transporters and use submarines to disable Sweden's defence. All they have to do is overwhelm south Sweden, the rest of the country up north is barely inhabited. And their population is like half of Romania's or one quarter of Ukraine's.

Tbh I think even Romania would have done worse alone against Russia. Sure we have some more recent weapons and the center of the country is shielded by a mountain range, also rivers which are hard to cross. Plus the seaside is mostly a delta with swamps so they'd have to go south where there's more passable land.
Ukraine is not a military weakling at all, they were one of USSR's beefiest armies. And they have lots of industry that can support that army. But they're fighting a much bigger army and country too.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by scarm »

Ukraine also has 8 years of combat experience.

That being said Sweden (and Finland) is a member of the EU, and while the EU without military powers like first and foremost the US but also GB and Turkey isn't anywhere as formidable as NATO, it would still probably play a role.

Like looking at Russias tactical failures and the fact that a large chunk of their active ground forces are bound in Ukraine there isn't really anything they could currently do to the Nordic countries other than atomic bombs i think.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by scarm »

RE: no fly zone. Considering that the Russian airforce lost like 10 jets/helicopters today i think its safe to say that Ukraine can do a DIY no fly zone just fine.

edit: also, today's day 10. Not that we should anything magical expect to be happening but it coincides nicely with Putin tightening the screws at home.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofcarthage »

Well this is embarrassing. Ukraine indeed has relatively better force than sweden. I read a zero extra in swedish numbers ngl.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by Dolan »

@scarm
If they could they would have already done it. But idk, this no-fly zone topic might be just a pretext. What they're really trying is to draw NATO/Europe into this conflict.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by scarm »

You mean a no fly zone? Was more so ironic, ofc they can't establish air control to that degree. But does it really matetr when Russian aircrafts don't really accomplish anything either way?
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by Dolan »

Yea no, this is a pretext to draw the West into this war and win it for them. They're very desperate because they lost those cities in the east and on the coast.
And the pressure is growing on them and all they can do is those small acts of sabotage here and there, but they can't effectively stop those big convoys from coming, only slow them down a bit.
The Russians are failing a lot too
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by scarm »


doubt but who cares it is funny
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by RefluxSemantic »

princeofcarthage wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 15:08
Well this is embarrassing. Ukraine indeed has relatively better force than sweden. I read a zero extra in swedish numbers ngl.
This is hardly the most embarrassing thing you have said, dont worry about it.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofcarthage »

RefluxSemantic wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 18:49
princeofcarthage wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 15:08
Well this is embarrassing. Ukraine indeed has relatively better force than sweden. I read a zero extra in swedish numbers ngl.
This is hardly the most embarrassing thing you have said, dont worry about it.
Oh please. Who cares what a westerner brainwashed with revisionist history, and biased and prejudiced media has to say. You should be embarrassed for embracing that system.
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by Sargsyan »

princeofcarthage wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 19:35
RefluxSemantic wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 18:49
princeofcarthage wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 15:08
Well this is embarrassing. Ukraine indeed has relatively better force than sweden. I read a zero extra in swedish numbers ngl.
This is hardly the most embarrassing thing you have said, dont worry about it.
Oh please. Who cares what a westerner brainwashed with revisionist history, and biased and prejudiced media has to say. You should be embarrassed for embracing that system.
hi
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofcarthage »

Sargsyan wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 21:20
princeofcarthage wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 19:35
Show hidden quotes
Oh please. Who cares what a westerner brainwashed with revisionist history, and biased and prejudiced media has to say. You should be embarrassed for embracing that system.
hi
Bye
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofkabul »

If you're a fan of history, or want a deep dive to Rus/Soviet understanding, here is a good lecture

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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by princeofkabul »

princeofcarthage wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 15:08
Well this is embarrassing. Ukraine indeed has relatively better force than sweden. I read a zero extra in swedish numbers ngl.
Sweden has been neutral in warfare for quite some time now, they have cut down military spending heavily. They have Finland as a buffer zone. Unlike Sweden, we didn't ever drop our arms after WW2, but keep investing and developing arms. The problem is that Rus symphatizer had done their treachery, as our old president Halonen. Went on agreement to remove all the land mines of our borders, and there were quite a lot of them as you could Imagine. She was 100% in Putins pocket.

However, Sweden is developing wartech, which is good. The bad thing is that they don't have a fucking army...
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Re: Ukraine Invaded By Russia

Post by iNcog »

princeofkabul wrote: ↑
05 Mar 2022, 21:47
If you're a fan of history, or want a deep dive to Rus/Soviet understanding, here is a good lecture

super cool, thanks for sharing this
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
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