AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

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Nauru Dolan
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AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11985381/Universal-pulls-song-infringing-content-AI-generated-vocals-Drake-Weeknd.html



This is pretty cool, it means we could have the same amazing music by Drake and The Weeknd without needing either amazing artists.
A software can output the same genius level of music. Just wow who could have predicted that
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by MaxMagous »

I wonder if AI is capable of generating Strauss overtures with the same ease
look wrote: ↑
01 Jul 2022, 08:55
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Well nvm, none of these dates work for me
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by harcha »

MaxMagous wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 14:49
I wonder if AI is capable of generating Strauss overtures with the same ease
yes. yes it is
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

Tbh I don't see the difference since all hiphop is created with samples so it's basically talking rhythmically on some samples pulled from elsewhere.
It makes sense that it's easy for a software to simulate a new song by Drake as all it has to do is replicate how he talks and add some quirky background samples that provide the melodic backdrop for reading the lyrics on the mic, basically "the music" part.

Now it should be easy for anyone to create their own Drake or any other hiphop song. You can probably create some really "original" bops that slap fr if you just tell the AI "make it sound a bit 80s avant-funk or 90s skate punk" and the AI should add the right background samples that would make it sound like it's some really new sound, because who rapped before on such background samples? Any such new recipe for making a hiphop song will also be hailed by the media as "crossing the boundaries of genres, a truly new artistic direction, making X one of the leading artistic figures of the 21st century".
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

Somebody already created a cover of a Daft Punk song by Ye (Kanye West) and it does sound like it's made by him.
This is especially easy to pull off when autotune is involved, as the AI has ample scope of hiding any imperfections with a bit of robotic harmonics.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by MaxMagous »

Is there a hip hop artist named Strauss who composes overtures or am I missing the link with my message? My curiosity stems from how oustandingly complex and multifaceted some music is as compared to...well, Drake. Or any hip hop for all matters. But to be fair, as far as I know harcha might very well be right.
look wrote: ↑
01 Jul 2022, 08:55
Kaiserklein wrote: ↑
01 Jul 2022, 07:42
Well nvm, none of these dates work for me
who care? unfortunately, one must decide to be an aoe3 pro or not
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

It will be a while before AI can generate music on the GOAT (Beethoven) level but it will likely happen in our lifetimes. I for one am pretty excited for this. The problem is, when we're at that point there will be so much great music that it'll be impossible to listen to it all
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

MaxMagous wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 18:18
Is there a hip hop artist named Strauss who composes overtures or am I missing the link with my message? My curiosity stems from how oustandingly complex and multifaceted some music is as compared to...well, Drake. Or any hip hop for all matters. But to be fair, as far as I know harcha might very well be right.
We weren't addressing your specific point, more like reacting to the topic's main idea.
Couldn't find Strauss, but found AI-generated Chopin and it sounds similar in style, though it lacks that original melody you'd hear in a great composition:



Basically it sounds like someone improvising on scales in the style of Chopin, but without coming up with anything memorable.
Which is what you'd expect from an AI, there's no creative mind involved. It's a simulacrum.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

I think it's wrong to think AI can't be creative even now, and it's likely to become a laughable take in the next decade. In the end what is creativity other than just reapplying learned concepts to new data? This is exactly what these models are good at.

Even AlphaGo played Go in ways humans hadn't come up with. It played moves that were simply not on our radar, yet they worked. Any human playing those moves would've been called a creative genius. And indeed, Go players called the AI creative as well. The same is true for AlphaZero in Chess.

I think it's a matter of time before AI come up with beautiful melodies, developed perfectly, that make us feel things as well as or better than any composer. The only hurdle is it would need to know what sounds good to humans, kind of like a chef needs tastebuds and composers need to hear.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by iNcog »

I think AI is just showing us how little of the dark room humanity has illuminated.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

Goodspeed wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 20:38
The only hurdle is it would need to know what sounds good to humans, kind of like a chef needs tastebuds and composers need to hear.
That's the impassable limit for AI: it's not alive so what it outputs is neither artificial nor intelligent.
Let me give you an example: there was this punk singer from the early 80s and she told the guitarist from her band "make it sound like elephants falling off a cliff". And the guy wrote some chords and guitar parts filtered through a flanger effect that made it sound like that. This is artifice. It's creating something that never existed, for which there's no precedent, no dataset to get trained on. It's just imagination.

If you tell an AI "make an ambient song that sounds like flying", it's going to search through the datasets to find something that is tagged as "flying" and go from there.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

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Post by callentournies »

we want to hold onto our specialness for dear life
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

If only we could escape our specialness and transfer that burden onto some other entity. We've kept trying to achieve that kind of weight transfer and all we got was religion and science from it.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by harcha »

Dolan wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 21:28
If you tell an AI "make an ambient song that sounds like flying", it's going to search through the datasets to find something that is tagged as "flying" and go from there.
What you're describing is just a limitation of how clearly we can communicate the query given to the machine. It is only a matter of continuing the development of these models (i.e. a matter of time) for them to be able to understand more nuanced inputs and to be able to make more interesting-for-humans and unique-in-a-good-way outputs.
MaxMagous wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 18:18
Is there a hip hop artist named Strauss who composes overtures or am I missing the link with my message? My curiosity stems from how oustandingly complex and multifaceted some music is as compared to...well, Drake. Or any hip hop for all matters. But to be fair, as far as I know harcha might very well be right.
What I meant is to say that there is no significant obstacle in making a model that can produce such composures. It's just a matter of training the model good enough that it can output believable-enough and interesting-enough stuff. It's a matter of time before exactly what you described will be made and uploaded to the internet.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

harcha wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 06:59
Dolan wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 21:28
If you tell an AI "make an ambient song that sounds like flying", it's going to search through the datasets to find something that is tagged as "flying" and go from there.
What you're describing is just a limitation of how clearly we can communicate the query given to the machine. It is only a matter of continuing the development of these models (i.e. a matter of time) for them to be able to understand more nuanced inputs and to be able to make more interesting-for-humans and unique-in-a-good-way outputs.
Yeah but if the AI needs a very minutely detailed specification of how to compose a piece in order to get closest to simulating a human-like musical work, it becomes similar to how a composer writes down a composition using musical notation. At that point, you can't say the AI is the composer anymore, as it couldn't achieve anything on its own.
This argument can be used right now too, an AI that is not trained on any datasets will not "create" anything, because it's not alive, it has no motivation to do so of its own will. It's just software that simulates a creation based on patterns found in previous human creations. But there's no psyche in there.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

they're in full panic mode

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it's over for hiphop 'artists'
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by harcha »

Dolan wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 10:44
harcha wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 06:59
Dolan wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 21:28
If you tell an AI "make an ambient song that sounds like flying", it's going to search through the datasets to find something that is tagged as "flying" and go from there.
What you're describing is just a limitation of how clearly we can communicate the query given to the machine. It is only a matter of continuing the development of these models (i.e. a matter of time) for them to be able to understand more nuanced inputs and to be able to make more interesting-for-humans and unique-in-a-good-way outputs.
Yeah but if the AI needs a very minutely detailed specification of how to compose a piece in order to get closest to simulating a human-like musical work, it becomes similar to how a composer writes down a composition using musical notation. At that point, you can't say the AI is the composer anymore, as it couldn't achieve anything on its own.
Don't get me wrong, it will never achieve anything on it's own, it's not magic. People make the models, people train the models and select which data to use for training, or at the very least people make teaching-models that teach the end-product-models. I'm just saying that new milestones are reached every week, and what we were discussing here is not too far in the future anymore.
Dolan wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 10:44
This argument can be used right now too, an AI that is not trained on any datasets will not "create" anything, because it's not alive, it has no motivation to do so of its own will. It's just software that simulates a creation based on patterns found in previous human creations. But there's no psyche in there.
I don't think it is unfeasible for a model to be made to make some random leaps of its own and then to select which of these potential outputs might be best (desired by the user). We are not there yet, where a model could produce something as human and musically vivid as Bohemian Rhapsody or The Dark Side of the Moon solo part, but I am sure the models will get there soon enough.
Another thing I want to point out is that the "AI-generated" Drake/Weeknd song is probably not a direct output from one model. I would assume it probably involved use of various tools and models, and was probably produced by a human before the upload.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 21:44
If only we could escape our specialness and transfer that burden onto some other entity. We've kept trying to achieve that kind of weight transfer and all we got was religion and science from it.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

fightinfrenchman wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 14:13
Dolan wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 21:44
If only we could escape our specialness and transfer that burden onto some other entity. We've kept trying to achieve that kind of weight transfer and all we got was religion and science from it.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 17:15
fightinfrenchman wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 14:13
Dolan wrote: ↑
18 Apr 2023, 21:44
If only we could escape our specialness and transfer that burden onto some other entity. We've kept trying to achieve that kind of weight transfer and all we got was religion and science from it.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

new drake hit btw



kinda bussin and slappin ngl
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Horsemen »

Dolan wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 19:46
new drake hit btw



kinda bussin and slappin ngl
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

Dolan wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 10:44
This argument can be used right now too, an AI that is not trained on any datasets will not "create" anything, because it's not alive, it has no motivation to do so of its own will. It's just software that simulates a creation based on patterns found in previous human creations. But there's no psyche in there.
Still you hold on, for dear life, to our specialness. It has been slipping away, though you don't seem to know it yet.
simulates a creation based on patterns found in previous human creations.
You say simulates a creation, but if you simulate creativity and create a new thing it's still a real new creation. Everything humans do is built upon previous works, too. The first humans couldn't have come up with the 9th symphony not because they weren't creative but because they lacked the foundations of musical history to build on. AI will similarly build on previous human achievements, and there is no reason at all to think that it couldn't create new things that are good. It already did, in Go. The way humans play the early game now is wildly different from 20 years ago, unrecognizably so, and it's because of AI.

Why do you think being alive, having a psyche, etc, enables us to be creative? What is this special property of our brains that enables creativity and is impossible to simulate? You must have some idea, considering it's the premise for a take that probably all AI researchers disagree with at this point.

Have you followed the development of GPT-4? The amount of progress they are making is wild. It is showing us that the things we thought made us special are emergent. Here's a lecture about it
Another good one about the implications
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

Goodspeed wrote: ↑
20 Apr 2023, 08:19
Dolan wrote: ↑
19 Apr 2023, 10:44
This argument can be used right now too, an AI that is not trained on any datasets will not "create" anything, because it's not alive, it has no motivation to do so of its own will. It's just software that simulates a creation based on patterns found in previous human creations. But there's no psyche in there.
Still you hold on, for dear life, to our specialness. It has been slipping away, though you don't seem to know it yet.
I wished it did. I wished I had the life struggles of a house dog, not of a city human. Get fed, jump around, bark, play with owner, go outside and run some more, and bark. Let the humans have it, nobody else wants it anyway. They were the biggest stooges to fall for it.
You say simulates a creation, but if you simulate creativity and create a new thing it's still a real new creation.
No, it's a simulation of a creation, as the argument runs. It mimics human creations by replicating some formal patterns identified in the material format that could be processed digitally. You could be right in the sense that the AI, lacking awareness, it tends to output meshes of visual figments when you tell it to generate an image that matches a description. And often this kind of visual composites do not bear any resemblace to a human creation, it's a new thrill that we've been exploiting already, but it's more like a fun glitch, we're taking advantage of the AI's lack of awareness, again.
AI creations
Everything humans do is built upon previous works, too.
Same for castors, but that probably doesn't say much about humans either.
The first humans couldn't have come up with the 9th symphony not because they weren't creative but because they lacked the foundations of musical history to build on.
That's a grand simplification that, on the face of it, sounds commonsensical, because all music was usually composed within a tradition. But then there have been tens of millions of people living within that tradition alongside Beethoven and they haven't written his works. What could have stopped them, I mean all they had to do was just build upon previous works. Trivial task, right? Maybe they needed to be actually Beethoven and go through the same life accidents, struggles, becoming deaf, feeling miserable and morose most of the time, seeking some escape in some failed relationships, emerging with an even more wounded self out of them, building up enough bitterness and explosive anger to feel the motivation to write music that hits like thunder.
AI will similarly build on previous human achievements, and there is no reason at all to think that it couldn't create new things that are good. It already did, in Go. The way humans play the early game now is wildly different from 20 years ago, unrecognizably so, and it's because of AI.
It's to be expected it will do good in solving problems that are completely mathematisable and liable to be solved algorithmically. Such as games with a clear and finite set of rules.
Why do you think being alive, having a psyche, etc, enables us to be creative? What is this special property of our brains that enables creativity and is impossible to simulate? You must have some idea, considering it's the premise for a take that probably all AI researchers disagree with at this point.
In a general sense, everyone can be creative, even if it just involves making a cup out of a squeezed lemon.

But truly big creators are those that bring something new into the world, that is fascinating and at the same time not simply explainable by what came before. There seems to be a halo vested in that creation which makes it take a life of its own, that nobody can consume through explanations, interpretations. It's as if the creator had access to his own private chaos from which he pulled an unpattern, some new and memorable arrangement of sounds, words, ideas, matter that cannot be dissolved into explanations.

Can you simulate someone's life entirely to see if you can get a similar creation from such an experiment? We can't even fully cure common illnesses or fully understand how one single neuron works, but we'd like to fully simulate the conditions that led to a great creation? The material difficulty in doing so would be so great that it'd be cheaper to just reproduce and hope genetics and enforcing a similar lifestyle could get close to achieving something of equal greatness. Though, to some, such an experiment might look indistinguishable from sadistic abuse and would be labelled unethical. It's still a little recognised fact that great creators had really fucked up lives, plagued by difficult temperaments, self hatred, misanthropy, drugs and alcohol abuse, impulsivity, bipolarity, depression, autism, living life as perpetual and inescapable torment that made them seek an escape in working on their music, scientific theories, philosophies. The usual life formulas did not work out for them. Clinging to working on their creations was the only routine that kept them waking up every day, writing a new draft, correcting it over and over again, destroying it next week, starting all over, correcting again, stopping work on it and going back to another draft, etc. And just keeping at it until nothing could be added. Then they'd feel triumphant.

Now let's replicate that with some software running on some microchips operating on slight differences in voltages that get interpreted as one of two states, 1 or 0. How would we represent Beethoven's despair at being deaf and seeing his feelings for some women rejected in 1s and 0s? That might be a place to start simulating new Beethoven symphonies.
Have you followed the development of GPT-4? The amount of progress they are making is wild. It is showing us that the things we thought made us special are emergent. Here's a lecture about it
Another good one about the implications
I took a look at this video. What cracked me up was seeing how superficially he declared that ChatGPT has a theory of mind because it could interpret based on textual statements what each protagonist thought. But that's just simply parsing what each interlocutor said at some point, what they witnessed and how this could be assigned to their mind-variable.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

I took a look at this video. What cracked me up was seeing how superficially he declared that ChatGPT has a theory of mind because it could interpret based on textual statements what each protagonist thought. But that's just simply parsing what each interlocutor said at some point, what they witnessed and how this could be assigned to their mind-variable.
You have this tendency to simplify these processes when an AI does it, but to consider it special when a human does it. What you've just described is exactly how we ourselves parse this information and come up with an answer.

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