AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

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No Flag fightinfrenchman
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Goodspeed wrote:
21 Apr 2023, 17:48
I'd have to think about writing 500 lines of code for a 3d game where one ball chases the player's ball which they can control with the arrow keys and random obstacles spawn on the map. GPT-4 did it too. Did it think? Probably it took a few seconds to let the information pass through its neural network and reach the answer. How is that different to what I'm doing, and if it is meaningfully different why does it matter?
It would be meaningfully different for you because in one situation you are actively involved and using your brain which has other positive effects beyond just the outcome of what you externally produce
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

I'm saying AI doesn't need the ability to think if it can reach the same results we can without doing so.

It's a point I'm making to avoid getting bogged down by debates about what thinking is.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Goodspeed wrote:
21 Apr 2023, 16:59
Not yet. Also what's the value of that, really?
The thinking part is pretty crucial. It defines more or less the limits of the current tool.

Actually, it is arguably something that current machine learning cannot do. The truly productive thoughts I have do not come from data analysis or pattern recognition, but from logic and understanding.

A machine learning AI does not have logic or understanding. It has simply recognized the patterns.

Giving it a voice may make it seem like it has logic and reasoning, but I have yet to see any answer that implies it does. For the non-programming part of my job, a simple google search has typically been more useful than asking chatGPT.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Not to say that this stuff isnt a gamechanger. It is extremely useful and much better at many things than humans are. Especially if it continues to develop, it will be a great tool. Hopefully this allows me to dedicate less time on programming, writing reports and doing more mundane tasks, and more time on solving the actual intellectual challenges. For the actual intellectual challenges, Im afraid we have to stick to humans for a while.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

The fact that you are still talking about ChatGPT means you either aren't getting what is happening, or you're not seeing what I'm seeing in GPT-4.

I am not talking about where we are currently. ChatGPT has never been particularly impressive to me, either. A useful tool, but not really a clear sign of an incoming paradigm shift. What I'm talking about is the potential. And I'm suddenly seeing a lot of potential because the Sparks of AGI paper about GPT-4 proved, imo, that true intelligence is emergent and therefore replicable. It also proved that it's much easier to replicate than I had thought previously. These models are going to keep improving, and very quickly at that.

To be clear, I was saying the same things you are now a month ago.
The thinking part is pretty crucial. It defines more or less the limits of the current tool.
You may be talking about planning? It's addressed in the video where Bubeck presents the paper, and it is a significant limitation in some scenarios, but other scenarios show that where humans think we need planning it's not always needed.
Actually, it is arguably something that current machine learning cannot do. The truly productive thoughts I have do not come from data analysis or pattern recognition, but from logic and understanding.
Logic and understanding are vague terms, and I would confidently say that, by my definition of those words, GPT-4 has both. And no, not yet on our level, but again, it's going to keep improving.

Again, GPT-4 is NOT ChatGPT. It's the new version of the model which we do not yet have free access to.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by callentournies »

Does it use a different architecture?
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

No, that's what shows these properties are emergent. Suddenly it's able to solve theory of mind problems that a 9 year old can solve, when it couldn't do this at all in earlier versions of the same model. What it's showing is that when you add parameters, slowly but surely the things that make humans intelligent start emerging.

A human brain has about 100 billion neurons. Imagine we had 10 billion. Would we lose the ability to attribute mental states to other beings? What about if we had 1 billion? Probably at this point we'd be dumber than ChatGPT.
They have been adding "neurons" to these models and at this point (I think they're nearing a trillion) it starts to be able to do things that we didn't think AI would be able to do for a long time. And it's proving that those things are indeed emergent meaning you don't need to explicitly program them, it's just a matter of adding neurons to this existing architecture. As we keep adding neurons and improve the training process (maybe adding memory at some point), the sky is the limit as they say.

We are also fairly close, I think, to these models being able to self-improve, which is when the rate of improvement will really skyrocket.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

Reddit locking its APIs for LLM training could be trouble. It's one of the smarter places on the internet. Quick, post smart stuff for the AI to train on

Climate change is real
Trump is a criminal
We need UBI

Edit: Actually they can still pay to unlock Reddit's data which I guess they will just do
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

Ok so we won't keep adding more neurons, we'll find other ways to improve it though
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by RefluxSemantic »

I was testing chatGPT a bit more and Im slowly starting to be convinced that it is mostly rubbish. Its been helpful for one of the programming problems (though probably not significantly more helpful than just googling the bug), but otherwise its useless. As a search engine, I cannot trust its answers. If it doesnt quite know, it will start bullshitting you. Ive been surprised by many answers, but after asking for its reasoning and sources I typically figure out that it is bullshitting you. But this makes me prefer to simply look the information up myself. For my tests, Ive been asking it about stuff that I know about or problems where I couldnt quite find the information I needed, so you know if its bullshitting. But if I really started to rely on the AI as a search engine, I wont always be able to tell if its bullshitting or not.

I am curious about GPT4. I havent used it so its hard to really tell how it works out in practice. I think my boss is quite convinced, so we might just get a license at some point and start working with it. But can it for example fix the bullshitting part? Can it really improve its capability to reason beyond the information it has access to? I really have to see it before I believe it.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Goodspeed wrote:
22 Apr 2023, 08:15
Ok so we won't keep adding more neurons, we'll find other ways to improve it though
Sure, we'll see how it will improve. But its stupid to just blindly extrapolate trends like that. They may find stuff or they may stagnate for a while, at this point thats not really clear.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

For one, it's able to use tools like search engines. So you can ask it a question and tell it that it can use a search engine, and it will use that to come up with an accurate answer, whereas ChatGPT only answered based on its training. That alone is very powerful and will make it infinitely more useful than ChatGPT.
It still bullshits, though.

This is based on the research paper, I haven't used it myself either.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
22 Apr 2023, 08:18
Goodspeed wrote:
22 Apr 2023, 08:15
Ok so we won't keep adding more neurons, we'll find other ways to improve it though
Sure, we'll see how it will improve. But its stupid to just blindly extrapolate trends like that. They may find stuff or they may stagnate for a while, at this point thats not really clear.
All true. The reason I suddenly see all this potential is that GPT-4 is able to do things I didn't think AI would be able to do for a long time. It's showing that intelligence is emergent, and easier to replicate than expected (by me). It's by no means the end-all in the field. My thing is just the potential it shows.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

I have a hunch that the reason why this was released now is because there's an ongoing crisis in the tech sector, after the corona crisis and the inflation brought by war, the economic forecast was getting gloomy. They were forced to start cutting jobs.
They were feeling that the big tech boom was going bust, so they pushed this with big fanfare to maintain the illusion that the big tech boom is not over. They have this big next thing coming out, stay tuned and keep buying shares. It's all about share prices.
This is also the reason why Elon Musk has been publicly raising alarms about unregulated AI and why some big names signed a public open letter asking for a moratorium of 6 months during which all AI research should be stopped until consequences are fully understood and regulated.

What's happening is that Google, Elon Musk and other interested parties have been caught unprepared by Microsoft launching ChatGPT. They don't have something ready to compete with it.
So they're all putting out these fake signals of "major concern for the impact on society", but what's actually concerning them is that they're behind and don't have an AI product ready to compete with Microsoft's.
And Microsoft itself has launched it to parry a potential loss in share prices due to a general loss of confidence in the big tech sector as an engine of growth.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

Musk is irrelevant. Yeah, Google seems to be losing to MS. Basically OpenAI is far ahead of everyone and MS partnered with them which was smart.
They were feeling that the big tech boom was going bust, so they pushed this with big fanfare to maintain the illusion that the big tech boom is not over. They have this big next thing coming out, stay tuned and keep buying shares. It's all about share prices.
The big fanfare is because it's a big deal. I actually don't think there's enough fanfare. People still seem generally unaware of this and if they are aware they underestimate the implications.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by fightinfrenchman »

@EAGLEMUT Create an AI Metis to start making posts on here to liven up off topic again
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

Yeah he should tell us more about his time in Vietnam
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
23 Apr 2023, 17:36
@EAGLEMUT Create an AI Metis to start making posts on here to liven up off topic again
I asked ChatGPT about Metis and it seemed to think Metis = Mitoe, so I'm afraid generating Metis posts is out of the question for now. Maybe more luck with GPT-4.

It didn't know about the ear, shockingly
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by fightinfrenchman »

I wear a Juggernaut-style helmet that insulates my brain from being copied by AI
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Goodspeed »

It's too late for us probably. Seems likely ESOC was scraped and used as training data
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by Dolan »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
23 Apr 2023, 19:01
I wear a Juggernaut-style helmet that insulates my brain from being copied by AI
Somehow I doubt they'd be interested in copying your brain tbh
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by iNcog »

Goodspeed wrote:
23 Apr 2023, 06:42
Musk is irrelevant. Yeah, Google seems to be losing to MS. Basically OpenAI is far ahead of everyone and MS partnered with them which was smart.
They were feeling that the big tech boom was going bust, so they pushed this with big fanfare to maintain the illusion that the big tech boom is not over. They have this big next thing coming out, stay tuned and keep buying shares. It's all about share prices.
The big fanfare is because it's a big deal. I actually don't think there's enough fanfare. People still seem generally unaware of this and if they are aware they underestimate the implications.
I'd feel more enthused if it gave me code that didn't require me to debug it. Sure it's just small little python scripts, but still.

I think I'm using it wrong when it comes to using it for coding that said.
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by blackwidow »

iNcog wrote:
24 Apr 2023, 23:13
Goodspeed wrote:
23 Apr 2023, 06:42
Musk is irrelevant. Yeah, Google seems to be losing to MS. Basically OpenAI is far ahead of everyone and MS partnered with them which was smart.
They were feeling that the big tech boom was going bust, so they pushed this with big fanfare to maintain the illusion that the big tech boom is not over. They have this big next thing coming out, stay tuned and keep buying shares. It's all about share prices.
The big fanfare is because it's a big deal. I actually don't think there's enough fanfare. People still seem generally unaware of this and if they are aware they underestimate the implications.
I'd feel more enthused if it gave me code that didn't require me to debug it. Sure it's just small little python scripts, but still.

I think I'm using it wrong when it comes to using it for coding that said.
I already let copilot write >50% of my code, checking it should be quick enough to still have it be a major time improvement. With the way things progress, I think in a year we dont write any code at all tbh.
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Re: AI output indistinguishable from drake and the weeknd music

Post by iNcog »

Does this mean, however, that a layman such as myself would be able to write their own programs? Even developed ones? I have some ideas but no real skills for execution.
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.

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