What's aoe2 like?

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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by dietschlander »

gamevideo113 wrote:Aoe2 units have a ton of hidden bonuses and tags, which imo is not a good design feature. In practice it works, the gameplay is good, but having to look at the wiki every time to check the bonuses is a bit annoying. This also goes for rate of fire, accuracy and speed. It's quite a mess.


aoe3 kinda have the same issue imo
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Goodspeed »

There is definitely more of that in AoE2. Figuring out how a unit fits into the counter system can be quite a hassle. Whether that's good or bad for the game is another discussion, but it certainly helps unit diversity.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Goodspeed »

This stream has been great this week. Guy hosted an apartment cup where he invited like 6 of the top 6 players to come play at his place. Very high level play, entertaining maps, and production value is pretty sick. If you want to learn about AoE2 this is a great opportunity @Jaeger

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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Garja »

That s more if youu want to learn how to lan party.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Frost Bite »

The only thing i love in aoe2 is "wololo".Felt pretty bad when i found out wololo was not in aoe3.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Jaeger »

Frost Bite wrote:The only thing i love in aoe2 is "wololo".Felt pretty bad when i found out wololo was not in aoe3.

What do you mean, it is Taunt 15.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Frost Bite »

I meant priests , they can convert units , buildings..
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by gamevideo113 »

Ooh i'm so glad aoe3 doesn't have priests, like, priests with conversion
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

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Post by gamevideo113 »

This is kind of what i was talking about. In aoe3 it is much simpler.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Omkar_Satapathy »

I don't know why but I always felt more victorious after winning a long pitched battle in aoe2.
According to me aoe2 is much better than aoe3 in terms of gameplay. It has a very nice AI and it becomes much more human like when you use custom AIs like the barbarian AI. Aoe3 may be better in terms of graphics but still gameplay is much more important than graphics.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by gamevideo113 »

Aoe3 has cards and different civs to spice things up, which is good. If you put the complexity of the two games together you'd have a game which is way too difficult to understand, therefore not enjoyable. I think people (this is not a personal hint at you, Omkar, i am talking in general) should just enjoy both games and don't worry about determining which one of the two is the best.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Goodspeed »

Agreed, but it can also be very valuable for the game that is newer and dying to learn from the game that is older and still very much alive. Tunnel vision and the tendency to stick with what you know can be what keeps AoE3 from evolving into the game it could've been.
Shipments and trade posts are such great mechanics, and if we learn from the things AoE2 did right when it comes to basic gameplay these mechanics can really shine.

But I think it's too late to make big changes ourselves at this point. My hope is that, with DE, Microsoft will attempt to blow some new life into this game and I'm hoping this community will be ready to give them some good advice if that happens. In order to do that, I think we need to learn from AoE2.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

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Post by Garja »

The reason why aoe2 is alive has not much to do with the actual gameplay
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Omkar_Satapathy »

You are true cards make the game more diverse but it also makes it more annoying when you have so many cards to unlock. You are denied fair chance when playing online. I like both games. I actually did mods for both games, aoe3 more. Aoe3 looks much more diverse and historical but it lacks in covering civilization from world. Glad that mods are keeping it alive in that field. But then AI is another major field. AOE3 AI never plays good when fighting naval battles, it just keeps spamming units and never crosses seas. It isn't good for a game based on colonization. There are limitations to many units and make it quite the same game every match except the cards that keep the spice in the game. Also there are limited game modes, only death match and supremacy.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Goodspeed »

Garja wrote:The reason why aoe2 is alive has not much to do with the actual gameplay
I'll bite. Why, then?
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Garja »

It came earlier and was more popular. That's completely due the period when the game came out.
Then nostaglia, sponsors, I guess voobly, etc.
The gameplay probably helps with the lag problem.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:It came earlier and was more popular. That's completely due the period when the game came out.
Then nostaglia, sponsors, I guess voobly, etc.
The gameplay probably helps with the lag problem.

It came earlier and was more popular? Well, earlier less people used to play video game, and it was more popular because it was a better game.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Garja »

The golden era of RTS was in late 90's and early 2000s. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Being a better game is somewhat subjective. AOE3 has several flaws which perhaps make it worse in comparison. AOE2 is probably more suitable as an Esport just due to the amount of outplayability that the game carries. But again that doesn't necessarily makes the game better. AOE2 gameplay can be boring af for example.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by momuuu »

Garja wrote:The reason why aoe2 is alive has not much to do with the actual gameplay

What? Why would that make sense?

Garja wrote:It came earlier and was more popular. That's completely due the period when the game came out.
Then nostaglia, sponsors, I guess voobly, etc.
The gameplay probably helps with the lag problem.

But it is still a dominant force in the RTS scene. It's actually one of the most popular RTS games out there. How would that come then? And how do you explain that other games that came out in the same period aren't nearly as succesful?
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:The golden era of RTS was in late 90's and early 2000s. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

I do know that it was the golden era of RTS, but why? Of course, their popularity dropped because of MOBA and FPS games, but that doesn't mean that RTS games can't have a big community at all.
sc2 is a 2010 game, and they probably have a 100 times bigger player base. Why? Because the game is better.

Also if aoe2 was a 2005 game like aoe3, it would just be as active as it is today, ie a lot more than aoe3.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Garja »

momuuu wrote:
Garja wrote:The reason why aoe2 is alive has not much to do with the actual gameplay

What? Why would that make sense?

Garja wrote:It came earlier and was more popular. That's completely due the period when the game came out.
Then nostaglia, sponsors, I guess voobly, etc.
The gameplay probably helps with the lag problem.

But it is still a dominant force in the RTS scene. It's actually one of the most popular RTS games out there. How would that come then? And how do you explain that other games that came out in the same period aren't nearly as succesful?

There were plenty of RTS games that were quite appreciated and some of them also became very popular: CnC, Warcraft, Total annhilation, Starcraft, etc.
AOE had the Microsoft partnership, that's basically what gave it a strategic advantage over the competitors from a business point of view. It was pre-installed in late 90s Windows PCs for example. It was also a good title of course. The concept of following the major empires through human history is what made it catchy.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Garja »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:The golden era of RTS was in late 90's and early 2000s. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

I do know that it was the golden era of RTS, but why? Of course, their popularity dropped because of MOBA and FPS games, but that doesn't mean that RTS games can't have a big community at all.
sc2 is a 2010 game, and they probably have a 100 times bigger player base. Why? Because the game is better.

Also if aoe2 was a 2005 game like aoe3, it would just be as active as it is today, ie a lot more than aoe3.

Compared to broodwar and people expectations SC2 was and is a big flop. Game is still successful because it is a Blizzard game and they can sell it well, together with good support, etc.
I don't think AOE2 would be the same if it was released in another era. The fact that it took like 6 years to release a new proper AOE title made also a difference. And by the way we are forgetting about AOM.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:The golden era of RTS was in late 90's and early 2000s. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

I do know that it was the golden era of RTS, but why? Of course, their popularity dropped because of MOBA and FPS games, but that doesn't mean that RTS games can't have a big community at all.
sc2 is a 2010 game, and they probably have a 100 times bigger player base. Why? Because the game is better.

Also if aoe2 was a 2005 game like aoe3, it would just be as active as it is today, ie a lot more than aoe3.

Compared to broodwar and people expectations SC2 was and is a big flop. Game is still successful because it is a Blizzard game and they can sell it well, together with good support, etc.
I don't think AOE2 would be the same if it was released in another era. The fact that it took like 6 years to release a new proper AOE title made also a difference. And by the way we are forgetting about AOM.

Well, that's because AOM was just as bad if not worse than aoe3.
aoe2 with better graphics would be a lot more successful than aoe3 if it was released today, that's for sure, maybe not as much as it did, but still a lot more.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by n0el »

AoE2, SCBW and SC2 have all survived and recently grown because they are great games. Games like AoE3 have continued to die because they aren't. It has nothing to do with graphics, time it was made or released, etc...

AoE3 has many things that could allow it to become a great game and even a unique window of time to do it. The question is, will it happen? Certainly the probability is very, very small.
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Re: What's aoe2 like?

Post by Garja »

AOE3 survived till there were ES support and sponsors fueling tourneys.
SC2 is not growing. It's fading since WOL but can't go past the bottom line because it has SC and Blizzard brand backing it up. Also of course it's not a terrble title at all, but still a flop compared to people expectations. AOE2 is growing because there were always a larger player base (see previous points) and because some aficionados started throwing money at it for tourneys. I guess AOC zone was also a good platform for the community and it helped.
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