England maybe leave EU june 23.

[spanky4ever]

Democracy is one of the requirements for the EU.

who is making the decisions in EU? Democracy Do you even know the "presidents" of the multiple EU "democracies" that rules over you - the multiple EU bureaucratizes?

[Mimsy for President]

Democracy is one of the requirements for the EU.

who is making the decisions in EU? Democracy

Putin (indirectly). EU does the opposite and it's called democracy. Tadaa !

[yemshi]

Putin has his own little party out there

[spanky4ever]

Personally I would not go for Putin or Eu or TTP (if you know what that is?) I prefer my government, which I have elected in a fair way, to do the govering

[yemshi]

That does not change if you are in the EU though, right?

[spanky4ever]

Switzerland is an exception, because they were a financial safe heaven until recently. But they're already starting to have issues with their currency, which was pegged against the euro. Once they de-coupled this connection with the euro, they basically fucked themselves, because everyone rushed to buy Swiss francs, which made their currency overvalued. This made their exports very expensive, so their economy was heavily hit by this decision. As they tried to devalue the Swiss franc, they kept printing money and selling them against the euro, until they acquired almost 489 bilion $ worth of euros in treasury reserves (about 70% of Switzerland's GDP). This is a major risk of inflation, if all those printed francs are sold and come back to Switzerland, they're in a big poopoo. Also, recently, I think they had problems with the EU not validating their rights to export some products on EU markets.

Norway pays a hefty price for being in the EEA (European Economic Area), about 850 milion euros per year, which is about the same amount of money the UK pays to the EU per capita (as a EU member). So that status Norway negotiated is quite expensive for you, you have to pay a lot just to be able to access the EU common market. And now that oil prices have fallen a lot, Norway's economy is starting to feel the burn.

I guess all that is correct - we still kept the fishing indusry - England didnt The amount is 3,4 billions Norwegian crowns

[momuuu]

Wait, someone in a discussion that actually knows what he is talking about? Get the fuck out Dolan.

I think the EU itself is strong as an economical union. As a political union however, it seems to try to achieve impossible tasks and require way too much money to redistribute to weaker members. But as an economical union the EU is great for all members.

The concept of the euro seems good too. However, countries like France, italy, greece and some others seem to struggle a lot within this concept. This is the first economical crisis with the euro, what will happen during the inevitable second economical crisis?

[Lukas_L99]

EU makes more decisions on your everyday life than the politicians that you voted for.

Like?

[spanky4ever]

EU makes more decisions on your everyday life than the politicians that you voted for.

Like?

as is - this is just as is

[Dolan]

Democracy is one of the requirements for the EU.

who is making the decisions in EU? Democracy Do you even know the "presidents" of the multiple EU "democracies" that rules over you - the multiple EU bureaucratizes?

The EU has 3 main institutions:

The European Parliament - its members are elected by each country, so each country sends an X number of European Members of Parliament
- The Parliament participates in making laws and passing the EU budget. So all those regulations you've heard about at some point were voted in the parliament.

The European Commission - is the European government, the executive power. Like in many democracies, the government is appointed by the elected parliament. So the Parliament holds a vote on what the Commission composition should be. They vote on a Commission president, who is like a prime-minister, and on its members, who are like European "ministers", but they're called Commissioners.

The European Council - is the other half of European executive power. Here every branch of government is represented from each country. So there is a Council on agriculture, for example. This means all the ministers from governments which are EU members will come here to decide on policies and laws. They can make law propositions to be submitted to the Parliament and the Commission.

There is also a 4th institution, which is not permanent, it's temporary. It's the Council of the European Union, which happens every 2 seasons, I think, and it's more like a political meeting. All the heads of states, presidents, prime ministers from all EU members come to this Council to make the big political decisions, like whether they should help Greece avoid bankruptcy or whether they should change the treaties.

These institutions are democratic inasmuch as the parliament is elected directly by citizens and the executive powers (Commission and Council) are also appointed by parliaments.

The president of the Council of the EU is just a puppet, a guy who makes sure those meetings are well-organised, he doesn't really have any significant power. So if anyone was concerned that the president of this seasonal Council is considered "President of the EU", they can rest assured. It's pretty much an empty function at the moment, it doesn't serve any other purpose but to organise those events.

[momuuu]

My problem with the EU is that the expansion is too eager and rapid from time to time. Countries that are very different economically or politically shouldnt be included imo.

[Lukas_L99]

EU makes more decisions on your everyday life than the politicians that you voted for.

Like?

as is - this is just as is

Just name an example where the EU affects the everyday life more than "local" politicians

[spanky4ever]

Just name an example where the EU affects the everyday life more than "local" politicians

Fishing industry in Denmark and England for one example ( no fish - thousands of worker out of jobs - North of Denmark are pretty bankrupt without the fishing industy.) Lucky Norway did not experience same destiny!
Mind you - we would have had same destany, if we had been in EU
Instead fishing is a very prosperous industry in Norway!
[video]https://youtu.be/h8oZxwp86nY[/video]

Rather have this shenanigans - than the whole pakage with EU. I hope for a Brexit and better deal with England

[spanky4ever]

I will add the Brexit movie: Take a look if you are interested - and give your openion
[video]https://youtu.be/UTMxfAkxfQ0[/video]

[spanky4ever]

Then take 5 sec to think about EU entering the TPP[video]https://youtu.be/DnC1mqyAXmw[/video]

Then take 5 min to think of where are democracy are going

If you are confuses - google it! Its a disaster coming our way - both Americans and EU citizens

[deleted_user]

edit: wrong thread

[KINGofOsmane]

they are smart they act like they would leave so they get what i want

[Dolan]

I will add the Brexit movie: Take a look if you are interested - and give your openion
[video][/video]

I watched 6 minutes of that and stopped. The people who are talking in that movie are stupid and uninformed as fuck. They admit they have no idea about how the European institutions work, but they hate them just because they don't understand them. Hate from ignorance. There's nothing else to it. And typical British arrogance. How can they allow something outside their country have any power over them (even if that power is only limited to a few areas, it doesn't apply to everything: for example the EU does not tell any country how much to tax their citizens, fiscal policies are completely up to each member state; same for education curricula: nobody from Brussels tells you what kids should study in their books, only how many years a degree should take, how many years a master's etc), when they used to be an empire? That's what it all amounts to. The Brits are jealous that they are in a big Union in which Germany and France are dominant leaders, when they used to be the biggest empire at one point. Deep in the British mentality there still is this imperialist mindset they can never shake off.

All these fake reasons with "who elected these Brussels bureaucrats" (who elects clerks in your UK administration? are clerks democratically elected?), "who elected this president of the Commission" (the parliament, just like in most parliamentary democracies? In most countries the president is elected by popular suffrage and the prime minister is appointed by the parliamentary political majority, just like in the EU institutions).

All this just shows a lot of prejudice, sheer stupidity, arrogance and hidden reasons. They need scapegoats for the real reasons, such as them being overwhelmed by their own failed policy of accepting immigrants over the years. Now with the Syrian flood of migrants and the Eastern Europeans coming to work in the UK, they don't like so much freedom of movement inside the EU.

And don't get me started on Syria. The whole Syrian mess was caused by the United States and their totally dumb policy of financing and encouraging rebel forces to rise against Assad. The USA is responsible for the migrants wave in Europe, they created the Syrian mess. History will not forget the shitty and bloody role the United States played in destabilising the Middle East and causing a migrant crisis in the EU, which gave the UK even more reasons to whine about the EU "being a dictatorship of unelected [sic] bureaucrats".

It's all a bunch of shite professed by a bunch or rabblerousers and imperialist arrogant cunts. If the UK leaves the EU, good riddance, the Union will have one less Uncle Sam pawn sabotaging its every major initiative.

PS. Do you know how big is a EU member state contribution to the EU budget?
The UK public budget total revenues in 2014 amounted to £648 billion. I don't have a pound/euro rate from 2014 right now, so I'll just express this in current prices. It's about 815 billion euros. From this, the UK contribution to the EU budget has amounted to 11 billion euros. That is about 1.3% of the UK budget. The UK GDP in 2014 was about 2,665 trillion euros. So the Brits paid 11 billion euros to the EU budget out of their total 2,665 trillion euros GDP. That is the MAJOR contribution that the UK had to the EU in 2014. 0.04% of their total economy in that year. But they have been crying about it, as if they have given away half of their GDP to those fat "dictatorial eurobureaucrats". It's all just a big media drama, which hides some other things they're not happy about, such as being fed up with their own migrants that they accepted over the years. It's by no coincidence that London is now called Londonistan.

[momuuu]

<dolan's opinion but more respectful with less aggression>

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[Laurence Drake]

I will add the Brexit movie: Take a look if you are interested - and give your openion
[video][/video]

I watched 6 minutes of that and stopped. The people who are talking in that movie are stupid and uninformed as fuck. They admit they have no idea about how the European institutions work, but they hate them just because they don't understand them. Hate from ignorance. There's nothing else to it. And typical British arrogance. How can they allow something outside their country have any power over them (even if that power is only limited to a few areas, it doesn't apply to everything: for example the EU does not tell any country how much to tax their citizens, fiscal policies are completely up to each member state; same for education curricula: nobody from Brussels tells you what kids should study in their books, only how many years a degree should take, how many years a master's etc), when they used to be an empire? That's what it all amounts to. The Brits are jealous that they are in a big Union in which Germany and France are dominant leaders, when they used to be the biggest empire at one point. Deep in the British mentality there still is this imperialist mindset they can never shake off.

All these fake reasons with "who elected these Brussels bureaucrats" (who elects clerks in your UK administration? are clerks democratically elected?), "who elected this president of the Commission" (the parliament, just like in most parliamentary democracies? the UK is an exception with its prime-minister elected by popular vote, because they are a bloody monarchy, what else can you elect if you don't have a president? in most other countries the president is elected by popular suffrage and the prime minister is appointed by the parliamentary political majority, just like in the EU institutions).

All this just shows a lot of prejudice, sheer stupidity, arrogance and hidden reasons. They need scapegoats for the real reasons, such as them being overwhelmed by their own failed policy of accepting immigrants over the years. Now with the Syrian flood of migrants and the Eastern Europeans coming to work in the UK, they don't like so much freedom of movement inside the EU.

And don't get me started on Syria. The whole Syrian mess was caused by the United States and their totally dumb policy of financing and encouraging rebel forces to rise against Assad. The USA is responsible for the migrants wave in Europe, they created the Syrian mess. History will not forget the shitty and bloody role the United States played in destabilising the Middle East and causing a migrant crisis in the EU, which gave the UK even more reasons to whine about the EU "being a dictatorship of unelected [sic] bureaucrats".

It's all a bunch of shite professed by a bunch or rabblerousers and imperialist arrogant cunts. If the UK leaves the EU, good riddance, the Union will have one less Uncle Sam pawn sabotaging its every major initiative.

PS. Do you know how big is a EU member state contribution to the EU budget?
The UK public budget total revenues in 2014 amounted to £648 billion. I don't have a pound/euro rate from 2014 right now, so I'll just express this in current prices. It's about 815 billion euros. From this, the UK contribution to the EU budget has amounted to 11 billion euros. That is about 1.3% of the UK budget. The UK GDP in 2014 was about 2,665 trillion euros. So the Brits paid 11 billion euros to the EU budget out of their total 2,665 trillion euros GDP. That is the MAJOR contribution that the UK had to the EU in 2014. 0.04% of their total economy in that year. But they have been crying about it, as if they have given away half of their GDP to those fat "dictatorial eurobureaucrats". It's all just a big media drama, which hides some other things they're not happy about, such as being fed up with their own migrants that they accepted over the years. It's by no coincidence that London is now called Londonistan.

You're right on pretty much every point. The Leave campaign here is fuelled by misinformation, and you can't help but feel that there's a lot of arrogance and xenophobia underlying the decision to leave.

[Dolan]

You're right on pretty much every point. The Leave campaign here is fuelled by misinformation, and you can't help but feel that there's a lot of arrogance and xenophobia underlying the decision to leave.

Well, I'm sorry about the tone, but I just lost my temper when I saw yet another piece of propaganda being taken seriously here.

Are EU institutions complex and difficult to understand? Yes, they are. For someone who worked in the past there, it took me a few years just to get an idea about how laws are made in the EU, because it's indeed a complicated process. But it's complicated because it has a lot of checks and balances. It's complicated because they are trying to make sure the final form of the law will be filtered by multiple institutions and multiple voting sessions. So a legislative act travels between the Council, the Commission and the Parliament a few times before it's finally passed into law.

And people should know that most EU legislation is not even compulsory. There are 3 main types of legislation: Recommendations, Directives and Regulations. Recommendations are non-compulsory acts, you are not required to apply them, they are just guidelines for other states to follow if they choose or want to do so. Directives are basically objectives that the EU institutions can set: for example, they may propose that people's personal data that is stored digitally must be protected by companies which are in the business of dealing with such data. A directive only sets such an objective, but leaves it up to the member state to implement the directive as they find fit. The means of implementation are completely up to the member state. Only the objective must be met, since it's considered to be of public interest.
Regulations are the most binding form of EU law and they usually deal with very critical and fundamental issues, such as waste disposal, pollution, animal health, sound level of vehicles, etc etc. Regulations are equivalent to national law, since they are automatically applied without being sanctioned by any national parliament. I think this type of legislation is what makes some people dislike the EU. But they forget that such a type of law is the reason why, for example, we have such low fees on roaming in any mobile network in the EU.

And they also forget that each of these EU laws have been voted in the parliament elected by each EU state. So, if you have questions about why a law was adopted, you should ask your members of the European Parliament. Every few weeks they are required to go back to their country (constituency) so that their voters can contact them if they want feedback on what the MEP did for them.

I know it's very hard for most people to understand EU institutions, I'm not sure what the solution is to that. Most likely if you give them information about it, they just get bored of its complexity and want to read the children's coloured book equivalent.

I have worked with people from the UK when I was at the European Parliament and never had any issue with them. They were competent and agreeable, I've no complaints about them. The only odd one out was Nigel Farage who didn't miss any opportunity to make a clown of himself and criticise the EU on every issue. The guy was like full of bile. Sure, some of his points may have been right, but then the EU parliament is not a Communist institution, every member can come and criticise a law or vote against it or try to change it, by proposing amendments and negotiating support for them. It's like in any parliament, where you have to do some work of negotiation if you want your point of view to be represented in a law. Nobody, except a few clowns, are just simply criticising without first trying to have their say in the legislative process. Eventually, laws are voted just like in every other parliament, so the outcome is the result of political will. It's just like in any country with a parliamentary democracy. There's no other way to pass a law, unless you're Switzerland and use online referenda for every policy issue, because you want a more direct form of democracy.

[Papist]

The polls are in favor of England leaving EU. I think they should! EU makes more decisions on your everyday life than the politicians that you voted for.
what do you think about brexit?? Next coming up is TPP - that will give government and ordinary ppl even less empowerment

This is just not true. I personally don't care what the Brits do, as I don't feel that I know what's in their best interest, but let's at least get the facts straight - the EU is not an Orwellian state like some say. It allows countries to retain complete control over everything other than limited aspects of their economies. The EU is what has enriched Germany and prevented Greece and Spain from collapsing (and bringing the rest of Europe with them.

The TPP is an entirely different issue. It is a trade agreement, whereas the European Union is a loose confederation of states.

[iNcog]

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