England maybe leave EU june 23.

This is for discussions about news, politics, sports, other games, culture, philosophy etc.
User avatar
Nauru Dolan
Ninja
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sep 17, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

iwillspankyou wrote:You and @duckzilla could have a point on him not being very clear about his positions before Brexit, and that could also mean that he was unsure, or that he wanted the ppl to make their choice, without him putting much weight on one scale or another. I know he has been widely criticised for it after Brexit happened.

I don't think he's unclear on Brexit. I think he's crystal-clear on Brexit, but as a party leader he can't afford to voice his own Eurosceptic positions, when the huge majority of the party he's leading is pro-EU. So he has to put a cork in it and just play tactical positions which make concessions to his Remainer voting base. If he did otherwise, he'd lose votes.
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by duckzilla »

Thanks @Dolan for the very detailed analysis!

I can also understand some of the policies Corbyn wants to introduce, although he tends to be a bit too extreme for me. There are some economic sectors, especially in the UK, which are in need for tighter regulation or even state control. E.g. the financial system located in the city is not sustainable the way it is currently working. It incentivizes risky behavior by making institutions too big to fail and, hence, socializing the risk via bail-outs. Some of these policies should even be consistent with EU laws, e.g. the railroad system in Germany is property of the federal government but managed very indirectly.
Good economic policy cannot be simplified by just assuming that competition is always good or government control always bad. It is a complex issue which should also be addressed as that.

All in all, this situation is even frustrating to see from the outside. I don't want to imagine how it is when you actually live over there.

EDIT:
I just found this opinion article, which is close to how I would interpret the situation:

"So far it has suited Mr. Corbyn, a longtime Euroskeptic, to stay on the fence, loftily opposing all of the Tories’ proposals and declaring that if only Labour were in power, it could magically achieve a better Brexit deal. He’s reluctant to back anything that the Tories propose because he calculates that doing so will implicate him in Brexit’s inevitable economic damage. He doesn’t want a second referendum because he doesn’t know which side to back."

(https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/opin ... e=Homepage)
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by duckzilla »

iwillspankyou wrote:
I could be wrong here, but I think this is not true. The "billions of Euros" are not really a new part of the negotiated deal. According to international law, the UK has to pay them anyway in order to fulfill contracts it has signed years ago. You could think of examples like fonds for investments into infrastructure. Countries plan that many years ahead and if the UK now drops out of the EU, they still have to pay what they agreed on beforehand. It is just that british politicians like to vilify the EU by saying that the EU wants a lot of cash in exchange for a Brexit deal. That's fake news.

I am unsure about this :?: Trying to find answers, but cannot (thus far).

I recently read about a sum of around 45 billion € in liabilities which UK currently has towards the EU. In theory, the government could choose not to pay this amount, but it would severly weaken british credibility at financial markets. If you don't pay your liabilities, why should anyone lend money to you? UK would descend into a european version of Argentina, combined with a depreciation of its currency.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
User avatar
Norway spanky4ever
Gendarme
iwillspankyou
Posts: 8389
Joined: Apr 13, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

We will prolly soon find out. This payment was part of a deal. If the deal is off, then all off it is off, and the payment will surely need to be re negotiated too? I do not think EU should count on it, and surely not in the short term
It could be Germany comes in a very tight squece if they are gonna provide those missing funds?
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by duckzilla »

Germany is full of cash and could provide it easily, but since Germans are quite sensitive towards money issues the government would try to make it look as if no money is flowing.

I think the "deal" part of it was rather that UK does not need to pay the full 45bn € but gets a slight discount in exchange for a scheduled programme which ensures when (!) the money should be paid. In the case of a "no-deal", the UK still has to pay 45bn, but it is unclear when and how it has to pay it.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
User avatar
Norway spanky4ever
Gendarme
iwillspankyou
Posts: 8389
Joined: Apr 13, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

duckzilla wrote:I think the "deal" part of it was rather that UK does not need to pay the full 45bn € but gets a slight discount in exchange for a scheduled programme which ensures when (!) the money should be paid. In the case of a "no-deal", the UK still has to pay 45bn, but it is unclear when and how it has to pay it.


there is also this:
The final amount will deduct agreements and assets the UK has with the EU.

Britain is estimated to have around €150 billion in assets that it purchased during its EU membership, including cash and property (paywall). On top of that, since the EU spends around €7 billion a year in Britain, so if these payments were deducted, it would reduce the final bill but a large amount.


I would predict it's not that straight forward if there is no deal. I think the sum EU got in that "deal" was very generous :!:
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
User avatar
Nauru Dolan
Ninja
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sep 17, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

@duckzilla

Yeah, it's a classic opposition stance. No matter what, they have to criticise and oppose the government's handling of Brexit, while claiming they would do it better. And add that Labour touch of "protecting jobs and securing access to the EU customs union and common market". Obviously, if you exit the EU, you cannot continue to enjoy unimpeded access to either of those. But what does it matter, it's just a game of credibility and Labour knows they don't really want to get to power now and manage something that is hugely unpopular with their voters. And even worse, if they got to power now, they would be forced to make a choice: either continue with Brexit or cancel it, going against the will of the other half of the electorate. So better leave Tories break their legs with this problem, while they can continue to posture as defenders of "the people" and try to capitalise as much as possible on Tories' failures.
User avatar
Nauru Dolan
Ninja
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sep 17, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »


Tom Peck - The Independent wrote:
Not since Winston Churchill can the country have had a more Churchillian prime minister. Not for her soaring oratory, because there was none and nor will there ever be. Not for her strategic nous or powers of persuasion. The cupboard is again bare on both those counts.

But Theresa May will go on to the end. She will defend the transparently indefensible, whatever the cost may be. And if this island, or a large part of it, were subjugated and starving... actually let’s not dwell on that bit.

She is indestructible. She is the cockroach in nuclear winter. She is the algae that survives on sulphuric gas from sub-aquatic volcanoes, seven miles beneath the daylight. She is the Nokia 5210.

On point. :mrgreen:
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by duckzilla »

I actually feel quite some respect for Theresa May. She finds herself in an indefensible position with no silver lining in sight for years, yet she finds a resilience to remain at her post, fighting a battle which can only yield a variation of defeat - one being worse than the other. She is, nominally, in one of the most prestigious positions in british politics, but it must feel like the opposite since everyone is bashing her, she lacks any real support, and is criticized in pretty much every dimension. Currently, it looks like there is absolutely nothing to win for her and history is going to judge her negatively no matter what the outcome is going to be.

Maybe her own limitations are crystal clear to herself. Still she chooses to hold the line. Who else could (or would?) do it better anyway?



edit: admittedly, I don't know a lot about her. Maybe she really is the most incapable person on the planet.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
User avatar
Nauru Dolan
Ninja
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sep 17, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

Just a bit more patience.

Image
User avatar
Great Britain Horsemen
Jaeger
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sep 24, 2018

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

donal ur are an retard
User avatar
Norway spanky4ever
Gendarme
iwillspankyou
Posts: 8389
Joined: Apr 13, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

They will leave, and best wishes for UK after :love:
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by fightinfrenchman »

iwillspankyou wrote:They will leave, and best wishes for UK after :love:


I wish them badly for doing something dumb
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Norway spanky4ever
Gendarme
iwillspankyou
Posts: 8389
Joined: Apr 13, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:They will leave, and best wishes for UK after :love:


I wish them badly for doing something dumb

why? you never give any reasons, do you have any on this issue :?:
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
User avatar
Nauru Dolan
Ninja
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sep 17, 2015

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

Because Hillary and the CNN said so.
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:Because Hillary and the CNN said so.


Exactly right 8-)
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Great Britain Horsemen
Jaeger
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sep 24, 2018

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

Nothing happens
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Horsemen wrote:Nothing happens


Vote against every possible option and surely you will get something good, the logic of a picky 8-year-old
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Great Britain Horsemen
Jaeger
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sep 24, 2018

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
Horsemen wrote:Nothing happens


Vote against every possible option and surely you will get something good, the logic of a picky 8-year-old

No to May's deal

No to other deals

No to no Brexit

No to 2nd ref

????
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Horsemen wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
Horsemen wrote:Nothing happens


Vote against every possible option and surely you will get something good, the logic of a picky 8-year-old

No to May's deal

No to other deals

No to no Brexit

No to 2nd ref

????


Why didn't they have an option to vote for the UK being a global superpower again?
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Great Britain Horsemen
Jaeger
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sep 24, 2018

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
Horsemen wrote:
Show hidden quotes

No to May's deal

No to other deals

No to no Brexit

No to 2nd ref

????


Why didn't they have an option to vote for the UK being a global superpower again?
At this point we should just apply to become a US state
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Horsemen wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
Show hidden quotes


Why didn't they have an option to vote for the UK being a global superpower again?
At this point we should just apply to become a US state


I would be forced to oppose this because I don't trust you people to not vote for Republican senators
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Great Britain Horsemen
Jaeger
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sep 24, 2018

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
Horsemen wrote:
Show hidden quotes
At this point we should just apply to become a US state


I would be forced to oppose this because I don't trust you people to not vote for Republican senators

I wouldn't worry about that - our Conservatives are more left-wing on most issues than your Democrats
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Unfortunately your left-wing party is super anti-Semitic which I imagine would go well with our Republicans
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
Great Britain Horsemen
Jaeger
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sep 24, 2018

Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

fightinfrenchman wrote:Unfortunately your left-wing party is super anti-Semitic which I imagine would go well with our Republicans

That doesn't seem right, U.S. Republicans are the biggest Israeli cheerleaders in the Western hemisphere.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV