England maybe leave EU june 23.

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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

Horsemen wrote:
Dolan wrote:
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I thought you approved the direction in which things were going under Johnson.

If the Conservative party is destroyed by this then Corbyn has a chance of winning a future election.
Don't worry, strategy wonderboi Dominic Cummings knows better. :!:
That's why things got to this point.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

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Post by occamslightsaber »

fightinfrenchman wrote:Just have another referendum you fools


Referendum to join the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by thomasgreen6 »

Dolan wrote:
thomasgreen6 wrote:
Dolan wrote:Tories just lost the majority.

Incoming coalition government between Lib Dems and Labour. Unless Corbyn plays his cards as usual and asks for any opposition government to be led by him, in other words, any government we'd support would be a government led by me.

Then it's a three-way hung parliament.

Is there anything that could make UK politics even more of a clusterfuck right now? :hmm: It all seems to just implode into more and more fragmentation, division within division, switching sides etc.

I don't think the Lib-Dems would agree to a coalition with Labour in the current circumstances
Well, what's the alternative? Tories have no majority anymore and both LibDems and Labour disapprove of a no-deal Brexit. Corbyn would not want to stop Brexit, but he would very much like to get to power after Brexit, in order to implement his agenda (which includes raising taxes for the rich, nationalising public utilities, making the state play a prominent role in the economy, etc). LibDems know that after lots of centrist Tories have either left or been estranged by the hardline wing of their party, there is a great potential to grow by attracting lots of moderate Tories in the next elections. Both LibDems and Labour might converge on the idea of holding a new referendum that would establish whether people still want Brexit and if they do, whether they want a no-deal Brexit or a moderate Brexit that makes some compromises in order to exit the EU in a more orderly way.

The alternative is to try to win votes in their own right. I think the Lib-Dems probably diagree with Corbyn on most issues other then a no deal brexit
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by duckzilla »

Good that the UK has a properly functioning election system easily conforming to modern democratic standards :)
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

October 27, 2018
tho
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

So?
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

So.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

At the age of 66 on the 6th month of the calendar year Corbyn declared himself in the labour leadership race. Also Jeremy Corbyn has 12 letters for 2 names. Divide 12 by 2 and you get 6. Hitler represented 666, the second six was his coming, is Jeremy the next coming, the last and final 6 as a piece of the puzzle?
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

Cray cray scenario: elections yield a very fragmented parliament and Tories cannot form a majority with only their MPs and those from the Brexit party. None of the major parties can form a coalition. The SNP becomes the playmaker that decides which coalition will rule.

The SNP hate Corbyn, but if Labour can promise them a new Indyref, maybe they can overcome their reluctance to work with Labour. Corbyn said he'd be fine with Indyref2.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Horsemen »

More likely scenario: Boris wins over most of the Brexit party vote, the opposition vote is split between Labour, Lib Dems and Greens. Due to FPTP the Conservatives win a land slide and take the UK out with no deal
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

Dunno, it's possible that the electorate have had it with Tories' perpetual crisis mode. Basically the whole Brexit show was the result of them trying to solve a long-standing division in their party. And now Johnson wants to purge the party of anyone who opposes no-deal. I thought the Conservative party was supposed to be a broad church party. What Boris is trying to do here is turn it into a monolithic, albeit smaller party.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Amsel_ »

Lol brexit is so fun to watch. It's like you guys are purposefully making it as bad as possible. Idk why May didn't send people from the conservatives and the opposition to negotiate together. Idk why they didn't do another referendum, but instead of "yes or no to leaving the EU" it's "which type of leave do you want?" Idk why they chose to drag out the deadline instead of just biting the bullet. But I definitely don't know why to make about conservatives losing the majority. Is Johnson's only hope at this point to try and call new elections? (they can do that right? i don't understand parliamentary procedures in Britain)
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by duckzilla »

Amsel_ wrote:Lol brexit is so fun to watch. It's like you guys are purposefully making it as bad as possible. Idk why May didn't send people from the conservatives and the opposition to negotiate together. Idk why they didn't do another referendum, but instead of "yes or no to leaving the EU" it's "which type of leave do you want?" Idk why they chose to drag out the deadline instead of just biting the bullet. But I definitely don't know why to make about conservatives losing the majority. Is Johnson's only hope at this point to try and call new elections? (they can do that right? i don't understand parliamentary procedures in Britain)

If I understood it correctly, the decision of calling a new general election outside of the regular schedule needs a 2/3 majority in parliament. Hence, BoJo and his pals cannot call it by themselves but need to convince the opposition. The FPTP election system is likely to favor Tories strongly in case of a new election, which means that the opposition does not have any incentive to go that way together with BoJo.

I got the impression that a big problem of UK is that its democratic institutions are antiquated and ill-suited to address more complex questions. If a new general election does not solve problems due to the electoral system being undemocratic, how can you expect the country to work out solutions in difficult situations?
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

Dolan wrote:Cray cray scenario: elections yield a very fragmented parliament and Tories cannot form a majority with only their MPs and those from the Brexit party. None of the major parties can form a coalition. The SNP becomes the playmaker that decides which coalition will rule.

The SNP hate Corbyn, but if Labour can promise them a new Indyref, maybe they can overcome their reluctance to work with Labour. Corbyn said he'd be fine with Indyref2.

I was in the belief that SNP was closer to Labour than they are to the Conservatives? Why do you say they hate Labour? are there any substance to that?
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

Amsel_ wrote:Lol brexit is so fun to watch. It's like you guys are purposefully making it as bad as possible. Idk why May didn't send people from the conservatives and the opposition to negotiate together. Idk why they didn't do another referendum, but instead of "yes or no to leaving the EU" it's "which type of leave do you want?" Idk why they chose to drag out the deadline instead of just biting the bullet. But I definitely don't know why to make about conservatives losing the majority. Is Johnson's only hope at this point to try and call new elections? (they can do that right? i don't understand parliamentary procedures in Britain)


It's not like the Dems and GOP in the USA "negotiate" anything these days eighter :P
But you are right of course, this has turned out to be a circus.

I also agree with you in that there should have been a plan/deal to vote on, and not just In-or-Out.
When this was on the agenda in my country, to join or not to join EU, my government first negotiated on a deal with EU, and then we had a referendum on THAT DEAL (with we turned down) :geek:
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Riotcoke »

I've just realised after all this time this thread's title is grammatically incorrect.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

Geesus, the rats are leaving the sinking ship ;)
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Dolan wrote:Cray cray scenario: elections yield a very fragmented parliament and Tories cannot form a majority with only their MPs and those from the Brexit party. None of the major parties can form a coalition. The SNP becomes the playmaker that decides which coalition will rule.

The SNP hate Corbyn, but if Labour can promise them a new Indyref, maybe they can overcome their reluctance to work with Labour. Corbyn said he'd be fine with Indyref2.

I was in the belief that SNP was closer to Labour than they are to the Conservatives? Why do you say they hate Labour? are there any substance to that?
There's always been enmity between the SNP ("Nats" aka Scottish Nationalists) and Labour. It all goes back to 1979, when SNP members of parliament voted to bring down the Labour government, which ushered in Thatcher's rule. Even to this day, Labour keeps accusing Scottish Nats of having helped Tories bring Thatcher to power. At some point they even called Nats "tartan Tories".

The thing is that Scottish Nats (the SNP) and Labour are competing for the same voters. When the SNP's number of votes in Scotland grew, Scottish Labour's votes declined. The SNP has always been seen by Labour as a tricky political opponent, since they couldn't have criticised them by using the same political themes they used against Conservatives, since the SNP also had a progressive, anti-nuclear, pro-immigration agenda. So, in a way, Labour saw in the SNP their own past idealistic, highly motivated avatar, that fought for their own common cause. And how could Labour oppose Scottish independence if that's what "the people" wanted? That's Labour's dilemma, they don't want to be seen as that party which puts itself in the way of what "the people" might choose for the future of Scotland. So they can't really criticise the SNP for clamouring for independence.

The SNP of today keeps criticising and belittling Labour, calling them "London Labour" to dismiss them as a party that doesn't truly represent Scotland, but is just another representative of mainstream, elite, Westminster politics.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

hmm, interesting historic @Dolan.
Looking at their politics, and rhetoric, I made the conclusion that SNP and Labour are more close than SNP and Conservatives. I still do. Did not know about old feuds like this though.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Riotcoke »

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... kers_w.pdf What's funny is you guys are all saying that the conservative party is dead, just have a look at the polling for the tories and the Brexit party. Time for a Red White and Blue Brexit lads.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

Riotcoke wrote:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/c68uv1jm1d/TheTimes_190903_VI_Trackers_w.pdf What's funny is you guys are all saying that the conservative party is dead, just have a look at the polling for the tories and the Brexit party. Time for a Red White and Blue Brexit lads.

I have never said that the Conservative party is dead, but I can only hope :P
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Blows me away that people think Brexit is actually a good idea
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Riotcoke »

fightinfrenchman wrote:Blows me away that people think Brexit is actually a good idea

I can tell you why it is, but it might be deemed as racist
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